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simon
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Posted -
2004/10/30 下午 10:14:12
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我的記憶力不好，我真有說過「全人類的最終被預定歸向天主」嗎？
我的想法是，全人類都有機會歸向天主，而最終很可能出現全民得教。但人還是有自由選擇歸不歸向天主，並不是預定。
天主有無窮的時間等待，超級頑固的靈魂，也有權無限期地拒絕天主，看看哪個較長氣。
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edward
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Posted -
2004/10/31 上午 09:25:55
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覆西滿兄：
宗徒說：天主的愛，不斷催逼著我們。我會從此角度思考這個問題。
在聖母身上的這種天主的「愛」，是否與我們一般信友的「愛」有分別？會否更為超卓？
請容小弟先在教會梵二的訓導資料上做些「功課」，看看當中所述及歸屬於聖母意志的自由行為，然後再繼續探討這個問題。
當然，若大家亦肯contribute的話，小弟是無任歡迎的。
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edward
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Posted -
2004/10/31 上午 09:29:13
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若按西滿兄所言，那麼「公審判」是否真正的終局審判呢？
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/10/31 下午 02:23:52
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What is the meaning of "freedom"?
We need to distinguish between "possibility to sin" and "capability to sin".
-Do Christians "lose" freedom by keeping God's Commandments? Are sinners "freer" than the Christians?
-Is God trying to make us less "free" by imposing Laws on us? Why Jesus say:"and the Truth will MAKE you FREE"?
-Are the saints in Heaven "not free", as they can't sin?
-Is God "not free", since he cannot sin? Note that God is both impossible and incapable to sin.
-Do we creatures have the "freedom" to be "not free"?
First clear up what the meaning of "Freedom" is before any discussion would be very helpful.
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/10/31 下午 02:30:28
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To quote Edward: "意志的對象是「善」，人在辨別當下各樣不同的局部的「善」，何者對自己更為完美而展開追求時，意志就作出了抉擇。自由就是源於此種「自決」：人不能不追求幸福，卻能以理智辦別何者為達至幸福的道路。"
To this I emphasize: "Freedom is the capacity (viz,自決) to choose the Good, i.e. turn to God from the creatures".
It is misleading to define "Freedom" as "the capacity to choose anything one considers good: apparent good, which could be creatures in the place of God".
Therefore being able to sin is not the essence of Freedom, being able to avoid sin and turn to God is.
So the saints and angels are completely free precisely because they cannot turn away from God.
Unless we agree on the meaning as understood by the Church, there is difficult to discuss using "common" and popular meaning of freedom.
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simon
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Posted -
2004/10/31 下午 09:21:13
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既然Augustine提出怎樣才算自由，為免混亂，我把先前的話rephrase一下：
聖母之所以偉大，原因之一是她勇敢地接受童貞懷孕。如果她只是一部電腦，任上主擺布，沒有拒絕天主的能力，聖母有何可敬處？
你會念「萬福電腦，你充滿聖寵....」嗎？
由此推論，聖母當然有能力去犯罪，只是她選擇不去犯。
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simon
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Posted -
2004/10/31 下午 09:24:03
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我同意，「為所欲為」並非真正的自由，那只是受制於欲念。
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simon
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Posted -
2004/10/31 下午 09:36:26
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我還是相信，在公審判時，一個人若有一點點「善」，那怕只是一丁丁丁丁丁點，天主也捨不得判他「永罰」，而是讓他有一個自新機會，在補贖後仍可回歸天主的懷抱。
若信、望、愛是三個量度人的準則，我認為，人與人的分別，只在於程度，而不是簡單的「有」或「無」。勉強畫一條線去分開及格與不及格，有違慈悲之心。
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靚仔
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Posted -
2004/11/2 上午 10:51:43
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神學討論有時討論到某處就開始有點"離地"的感覺.
"大道廢,有仁義.智慧出,有大偽"－－老子《道德經》十八章．
人沒有分辨是非及選擇是否會較好？
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edward
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Posted -
2004/11/3 下午 10:12:36
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子曰：攻乎異端，斯害己也。
萬世師表所不提倡的，是「攻讀」抑或「攻擊」異端呢？
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edward
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Posted -
2004/11/27 下午 09:08:57
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根據J.M. Herve所編的《Manuale Theologiae Dogmaticae》（1935年版），Vol. II，p. 617，聖母是「不能」犯罪的：
2. B. Virgo fuit impeccabilis – Fatentur communius theologi B. Mariam non solum de facto nunquam peccavisse, sed peccare non potuisse, saltem a tempore quo Filium Dei concepit. Sane Maria, in quantum est Mater Dei, jus habet ad supernaturalem Dei amicitiam: maternitas enim divina est supernaturalis et ideo Deus et ejus Mater sese mutuo diligent in ordine supernaturali. Sed maternitas divina est inamissibilis; ergo Maria, Mater Dei, jus habet ad amorem Dei perpetuum, seu est impeccabilis.
Maria tamen non fuit impeccabilis ab intrinseco, ad modum Beatorum, qui ab essentia bonitatis infinitae aperte visa nullatenus averti possunt; sed: 1) ex abundantia et perfectione gratiae et donorum, quae merito dicuntur vera quaedam participation justitiae originalis, et quorum ope vires ejus inferiors omnino rationi subdebantur ac omnis auferebatur inclination appetites ad malum; 2) ex singulari Dei providential et protectione, quibus, per auxilia specialia, infallibiliter custodiebatur ab omni peccato vel levissimo.
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edward
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Posted -
2004/12/11 上午 12:36:14
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近日讀Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange所著的《The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life》，當中亦有述及童貞聖母的無罪性。現抄錄出來與大家分享：
Mary had therefore impeccantia (the term is parallel to inerrantia) or freedom from sin, and even impeccability. Her title to these endowments is not however the same as her Son’s. In her case it was a matter of preservation from every sin through a special privilege. This privilege includes first of all a very high degree of habitual grace and charity, which gives the soul a strong inclination to the act of love of God and withdraws it from sin. It includes also confirmation in grace, which when granted to a saint is normally through an increase of charity, especially that proper to the state of transforming union, and an increase of efficacious graces which preserve the soul de facto from sin and move it to ever more meritorious acts. Thus Mary enjoyed a special assistance of Divine Providence. This assistance – more effective than that which belonged to the state of innocence – preserved all her faculties from faults, and kept her soul in a state of the most complete generosity. Just as confirmation in grace is an effect of the predestination of the saints, so this preservative assistance granted to Mary was an effect of her peculiar predestination. Far from diminishing her liberty or free will, the effect of this preservation from sin was to confer on her full liberty in the order of moral goodness, with no inclination to evil (just as her mind never tended to error). Hence her liberty, following the example of that of Jesus, was a faithful and most pure image of God’s liberty, which is at once sovereign and incapable of sin.
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edward
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Posted -
2004/12/13 下午 11:38:11
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Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange在他的著作 《Reality: A synthesis of thomistic thought》中，曾提到基督的「不能犯罪」，是如何與「自由」協調：
Chapter 35: Freedom and Impeccability
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/12/14 上午 09:02:14
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Edward: your link links to a blank page.
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edward
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Posted -
2004/12/14 下午 06:32:04
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Carissime Augustine,
Please wait for the linked site to be loaded because it was a very big document indeed.
Eduardus
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靚仔
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Posted -
2005/3/16 上午 12:29:47
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今期(March 21, 2005)時代周刊的封面故事寫得很好,值得一看.
故事名稱是"Hail Mary, Christians of all denominations are finding their own reasons to venerate the mother of Jesus"
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edward
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Posted -
2005/3/26 下午 03:19:53
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閒逛《The Thomist》的網站，發現一篇文章，講論聖多瑪斯的個人思想發展，都幾好睇。有興趣者，亦可瀏覽之：
Michael G. Lawler: Grace and Free Will in Justification: a Textual Study in Aquinas
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