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edward
Posted - 2005/8/7 ¤U¤È 11:02:46
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
¡u§Ú·|¦b¥½¤é¼f§P¥L¡v©M¡u§Ú¥u·|¦b¥½¤é¼f§P¥L¡v¦b»y·N¤W¬O¦³¤À§Oªº¡C
ªp¥B¡A¤H¦º«á§Y¦³¨p¼f§P¬O¤@·í«H¹D²z¡C·í«H¹D²z»P¸t¸g¹D²z¤§¶¡¡A¤£¥i¯à¤¬¬Û¥Ù¬Þ¡C
¦]¦¹¡AYÁnºÙ¤Ñ¥D¡u¥u¡v¦b¥½¤é¤~¼f§P¤HÃþ¡A«h¬O¹ï¸t¸g¹D²zªº²z¸Ñ¤£¥¿½T¤F¡C³o¤£¬O¥DC¿q»¡¿ù©Î»¡ÁÀ¡A¦Ó¬O¦³¤H·|¿ù·N¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/7 ¤U¤È 11:35:23
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To Edward,
//¦]¦¹¡AYÁnºÙ¤Ñ¥D¡u¥u¡v¦b¥½¤é¤~¼f§P¤HÃþ¡A«h¬O¹ï¸t¸g¹D²zªº²z¸Ñ¤£¥¿½T¤F¡C³o¤£¬O¥DC¿q»¡¿ù©Î»¡ÁÀ¡A¦Ó¬O¦³¤H·|¿ù·N¡C//
¦ô¤£¨ì¤@Ó©¾©ó±Ð·|°V¾Éªº¤H, ·|³d½|±Ð·|°V¾É, ¯u¦³½ì!
¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z1021 ±ø©Ò»¡:¡u¦º¤`¬O¤H¥Í®Èµ{ªº²×µ²¡A¤H¥Í¬O¦Û¥Ñ§à¾Üªº®É´Á¡G±µ¨ü©Î©Úµ´¤Ñ¥D¦b°ò·þ¤ºÅã¥Üªº·O®¦¡C·s¬ù½Í¨ì¼f§P®É¡A©Ò±Ä¥Îªº°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¬Oªï±µ°ò·þ²Ä¤G¦¸ªº¨ÓÁ{¡C¥i¬O·s¬ù¤]¹ð¦¸ªÖ©w¡A¤H¦º«á°¨¤W´N«ö¨ä¥Í«eªº¥\¹L©M«H¼w±o¨ì³øÀ³¡C³h½a©Ô¥`¸SªºÄ´³ë©M°ò·þ¦b¤Q¦r¬[¤W¦V¥kµs©Ò»¡ªº¸Ü¡A¦P¼ËÁÙ¦³¨ä¥L·s¬ùªº³¹¸`³£½Í¤ÎÆF»îªº²×§½¡A¤@Ó¤Hªº²×§½¥i¥H»P¥t¤@Óªº¤£¦P¡C¡v
¥HY¤Q¤G44-50ªº¤º®e»{¬°¼f§P¦b©ó°ò·þ²Ä¤G¦¸ªº¨ÓÁ{¨Ã¤£¬O¤p§Ì·|¿ù·N, ³s±Ð·|°V¾É¤]»{¦P¼f§P¦b©ó°ò·þ²Ä¤G¦¸ªº¨ÓÁ{¬O·s¬ùªº°ò¥»¯ßµ¸.
**********************
¥t¥~, ¬JµM§A»¡"§Ú̪֩w", ¨º»ò§Ú·Q°Ý: §Aª¾¹D¦b¾ú¥v¤¤ªº¨º¤@Ó¤H, ¬O³Q±Ð·|ªÖ©w¦b¨p¼f§P¤¤¤U¦aº»ªº©O?
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/8 ¤U¤È 07:18:34
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
Y¥¿½T²z¸Ñ¡A«h¥iª¾¹D¤p§Ì¨Ã¨S¦³¡u³d½|¡v±Ð·|°V¾É¡G
¤@¡B¡m¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z¡n²Ä1021±øªº¼ÐÃD¡A¤£´N¬O¡uÓ§O¼f§P¡v¡]The Particular Judgment¡^¶Ü¡H¦]¦¹¡A«ö·Ó±Ð·|°V¾É¡G¦º«á§Y¦³¨p¼f§P¡A¥B§Y¦³½à»@¡C°ò·þ¦A¨Ó®Éªº¼f§P¡A¬O¤½¼f§P¡C¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v¡]primary aspect / ì¤å¡Gpraecipue prospectu¡^¤@µü¡A¨Ã¤£§_©w¦³¨ä¥L¡u¯ßµ¸¡v¡]secondary aspect / ì¤å¡G"sed pluries etiam"¡^ªº¦s¦b¡C
¤G¡BY±z¦³¬Ý²M·¡¤p§Ì¥ý«eªº¶K¤å¡AÀ³¥i²z¸Ñ¤p§Ì©Ò«üªºªÖ©w¬O¡u¦aº»¦³¤H¡v¡A¦Ó¤£¬OªÖ©w¡u¦aº»¦³½Ö¡v¡C¨âÓÆ[©À¬O¦³¤À§Oªº¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/8 ¤U¤È 10:21:07
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To Edward,
//¤@¡B¡m¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z¡n²Ä1021±øªº¼ÐÃD¡A¤£´N¬O¡uÓ§O¼f§P¡v¡]The Particular Judgment¡^¶Ü¡H¦]¦¹¡A«ö·Ó±Ð·|°V¾É¡G¦º«á§Y¦³¨p¼f§P¡A¥B§Y¦³½à»@¡C°ò·þ¦A¨Ó®Éªº¼f§P¡A¬O¤½¼f§P¡C¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v¡]primary aspect / ì¤å¡Gpraecipue prospectu¡^¤@µü¡A¨Ã¤£§_©w¦³¨ä¥L¡u¯ßµ¸¡v¡]secondary aspect / ì¤å¡G"sed pluries etiam"¡^ªº¦s¦b¡C //
º¥ý, §Ú¨S¦³§_©w¨p¼f§Pªº¦s¦b, §Ú¤Þ¥Î¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z¬O¦V§A«ü¥X:¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v©M¡u¨ä¥L¯ßµ¸¡v¬O¥i¥H¨Ã¦sªº,¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v¨Ã¤£¬O¡u¹ï¸t¸g¹D²zªº²z¸Ñ¤£¥¿½T¤F¡v¡C
//¡u¨Æ¹ê¤W¡v¦³¤H¨üµÛ¥Ã»@¡A¬O±Ð·|ªº¤@³e°V¾É¡C¥u¬O¹³¡uÅ@¦u¤Ñ¨Ï¡v±Ð¸q¯ë¡A¥¼³Q©wÂ_¦Ó¨o¡C¯«¾Ç¤W¡A³oÄÝ©ó¡uordinary and universal magisterium¡vªº¹D²z¡A¥Ñ¶ø´µ©w¦Ü±ë¤G¡A§¡¦p¦¹½×z¡A§_©w¦¹¤@¹D²z¡A«h¨ä¥L¹D²z¤£¯à³Q¥¿½T²z¸Ñ¡C//
±Ð·|°V¾É±j½Õ¦³¤H¨üµÛ¥Ã»@¡A¬O§_¤@©w¥Nªí¦³¤H¥¿¦b¨üµÛ¥Ã»@©O? ±Ð·|°V¾Éªº¥Øªº¬O¬°¥s¤H§ó©ö±o±Ï, §Ú»{¬°±Ð·|±j½Õ¦³¤H·|¨üµÛ¥Ã»@, µL«D¥u¬O¬°µÛªª¥Áªº»Ýn, Ãø¹D±Ð·|¤½¶}©M±Ð¤Í»¡: ¡u¦aº»¨S¦³¤H, §A̺ɱ¡°µÃa¨Æ§a! ¡v³oªª¥Á¤âªkªº±À½×¦b¡u¦aº»¡v«H²z¤¤±o¨ì¤Þµý: ¸t¸g©M±Ð·|°V¾É¹ï¦aº»ªºÁn©ú¬O¬°³ê°_¤Hªº³d¥ô¡A¤H¥H¥Ã»·ªºÂk±J¬°¥Ø¼Ð¡A¸Ót³d¦a¹B¥Î¥Lªº¦Û¥Ñ¡C(¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z1036±ø) ¦aº»ªº¥Øªº¤£¬O¬°Ãa¤HªÖ©w¨ä©~¨¤§©Ò, ¦Ó¬O§Æ±æ¤H¯à¦]¦¹«ù¦u³q©¹¤Ñ°ê¤§¸ô.
//½Ð¤j®a¦A¥J²Ó«ä¦Ò¥H¤Uªk³W¡]DS623¡^ªº·N¸q¡G
¡uÁaµM¤£¬O©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡A¦ý¤Ñ¥Dªº½T½¤£¨Ò¥~¦aÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡C¤H±o±Ï¬O¦]¬°¤Ñ¥Dªº®¦½ç¡A³à¤`«h¬O¤H¸o¦³À³±o¡C¡v//
½Ð¤p¤ß¹B¥Î±Ð·|°V¾É, ¦³Ãöªº"ªk³W"¡]DS623¡^ªº¥Ø¤£¬O¬°«ü¥X¦³¤HªÖ©w¤£±o±Ï¡A¦Ó¥u¬O¬°¤Ï»é·í®Éªº¤Ñ¥D¹w©w½× (¤Ñ¥D¹w©w½×¬O«ü¤Hªº±o±Ï¥þ³¡¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº¹w©w.)
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simon
Posted - 2005/8/8 ¤U¤È 10:23:39
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edward,
¹ï©ó¤@Ó¤`ÆF¡]¤ñ¦p¸ô¤H¥Ò¡^¡A¤½¼f©M¨p¼fªºµ²ªG·|§_¤£¦P¡H
¦pªG¥²µM¬Û¦P¡A¬°¦ó¼f¨â¦¸¡A±o¶¢µL¨Æ°µ¶Ü¡H
¦pªG¦³¥i¯à¤£¦P¡A¤S¬O¬Æ»òì¦]¡H
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤W¤È 12:07:08
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
°ÝÃD¬O¦b©ó¡A±z§â¥DC¿q¦b¥½¤éªº¼f§P¥[¤@Ó¡u¥u¡v¦r¡C®Ú¾Ú»Õ¤U¥ý«eªº¯d¨¥¡A±z½T¬O»{¬°C¿q¬O«ü¡u¥u·|¦b¥½¤é¤~¦³¼f§P¡v¡C¬JµM±z»{¬°¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v©M¡u¨ä¥L¯ßµ¸¡v¥i¥H¨Ã¦s¡A¨º»ò¬°¦ó¥[¤@Ó¡u¥u¡v¦r¡H
·í»Õ¤U¸ÑÄÀ©Î¡uparaphrase¡v¸t¸g¸g¤å®É¡A½Ðª`·N¥Îµü¦³§_¹H¤Ï¤F±Ð·|ªº°V¾É¡C°¨¤B¸ô¼w±N¡u¤H±o±Ï¬O¥Ñ©ó«H¼w¡v¥[¤@Ó¡u¥u¡v¦r¡AÅܬ°¡u¤H±o±Ï¬O¡y¥u¡z¥Ñ©ó«H¼w¡v¡A¹E¦¨¤F²§ºÝ¡C
ªk³W©Î±Ð¸q©ÒªÖ©wªº¡u·N«ä¡v©M±z´¢¼¯¥X¨Óªº¡u¥Øªº¡v¬O¨â¦^¨Æ¡C±Ð·|ªªªÌªº½T¥i¯à°ò©ó¬Y¨Ç¥Øªº¡A¦Ó«Å§G¬Y¨Ç±Ð¸q¡C¦ýY±Ð·|¤£½T©w¦³¤H¤£±o±Ï¦Óµw»¡¦³¤H¤£±o±Ï¡A«h»P¡u¼»ÁÀ¡vµL²§¡C¦ý½Ð»Õ¤U¤Á°O¡G¬O¡u¯u²z¡v¦Ó«D¡uÁÀ¨¥¡v¨Ï¤H±o¨ì¦Û¥Ñ¡C
¤p§Ì¬Ý¤£¥XDS623ªº·N¸q¡A»P±z©Òzªº¡u¥Øªº¡v¦³¦óÃöÁp¡Ð¡Ð
Deus omnipotens "omnes homines" sine exceptione "vult salvos fieri" [1 Tm 2,4], licet non omnes salventur. Quod autem quidam salvantur, salvantis est donum: quod autem quidam pereunt, pereuntium est meritum.
³o¤À©ú´N¬O«ü¥X¡G¡u¤£¬O©Ò¦³¤H³£±o±Ï¡vªº¨Æ¹ê¡A¤£»P§ÌZ¼w«e®Ñ¡]¤G4¡^©Òzªº¡u¤Ñ¥DÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡v©èIJ¡C
±zªº½TªÖ©w¡u¤Ñ¥D¹w©w½×¬O«ü¤Hªº±o±Ï¥þ³¡¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº¹w©w¡v¶Ü¡H
§Ú¤£»{¬°¡u¤Hªº±o±Ï¥þ³¡¬O¤Ñ¥D¹w©w¡v³o»¡ªk¦³°ÝÃD¡AÃöÁä¬O¦b©ó¥¿½T¦a²z¸Ñ¡C±Ð·|¦ó®É¤Ï»é¹L¦¹¤@»¡ªk¡H
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤W¤È 12:29:48
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¦èº¡¥S¡G
Ãö©ó¤½¼f§P©M¨p¼f§Pªº±Ð¸q¡A¤p§Ì¥u¬O¯Âºé¦a¬Û«H¡C¤Ñ¥Dªº§@¬°¡A§Ú»{¬°¦³Í¢ªº²z¥Ñ¡A¦ý§Ú¥¼¥²¤@©wÁA¸Ñ¡C
§Ú·|³o¼Ë·Q¡C
¨p¼f§P¬O¤H¦º«á¡AÆF»îª½±µ©MÓ§O¦a»P¤Ñ¥D¹ï½èªº¤@ºØ±¡ªp¡C¹ïµ½ÆF¦Ó¨¥¡A¤Ñ¥D¬O¥Lªº½à³ø¡F¬°´cÆF¦Ó¨¥¡A¤Ñ¥D¬O¥Lªº§é¿i¡C
§Ú·|²z¸Ñ¤½¼f§P»P¨p¼f§Pªº¤À§O¡A¬O¦b©ó¦×¨´_¬¡ªºµo¥Í¡A©M¨ä¥L¤H¦b³õ³¼f¡C¹ï§Úªº·N¸q¬O¡G¤Hªº¦æµ½©Î§@´c¡A¤£¯Âºé¬OÓ¤H»P¤Ñ¥D¤§¶¡ªº¨p¨Æ¡A¥¦Ì³Ì«á³£nÂ\¤W枱¡C
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simon
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤W¤È 12:34:38
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edward,
°¨¤B¸ô¼w±N¡u¤H±o±Ï¬O¥Ñ©ó«H¼w¡v¥[¤@Ó¡u¥u¡v¦r¡AÅܬ°¡u¤H±o±Ï¬O¡y¥u¡z¥Ñ©ó«H¼w¡v¡A¹E¦¨¤F²§ºÝ¡C
¸t¸gÅã¥Ü¤Ñ¥Dªº¤T¦ì¡A¤H¥[¤@Ó¡u¥u¡v¦r¡AÅܬ°¡u¤Ñ¥D¡y¥u¡z¦³¤T¦ì¡v¡A·|¤£·|¤]¦¨¤F²§ºÝ¡H
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HUBERT
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤W¤È 11:41:40
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¦b¦¹, §Ú·Q¥ý¥Ó³ø§Ú»{¬°¡u¦aº»¥i¯à¨S¦³¤H¡v©M¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡vªºì¦]:
§Ú¬O°ò©ó¦P¤@¡u«H¥õªº°ò¦¬O¸t¸g¡vªºì«h, ¦b¨âÓ½×ÃD¤W, ÁöµM¸t¸g³£¨S¦³©ú¨¥¡u¦aº»¥i¯à¨S¦³¤H¡v©Î¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v, ¤£¹L, ¸t¸g«o©ú¨¥¤F¤Ñ¥DÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï, §Ú´N¬O°ò©ó³oÂI»{¬°¡u¦aº»¥i¯à¨S¦³¤H¡v. ¦Ü©ó¬°¦ó§Ú»{¬°¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v, ì¦]¬O§Ú¼È®É¤´¬Ý¤£¨£¦¹±À½×¥i±o¨ì¥ô¦óªº¸t¸g¤ä«ù, ¦b¸t¸g¤¤§Ú¥ç¬Ý¤£¨£¥i¥H¤Þ¥Î¨º¥y¸g¤å¥h¤ä«ù¡u¤Ñ¥D¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v.
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤U¤È 02:01:41
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To Edward,
(1) ¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z¬O«ü¥X:¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v©M¡u¨ä¥L¯ßµ¸¡v¬O¨Ã¦sªº, ©¼¦¹¤£·|§_©w¤j®aªº¦s¦b. ¦]¦¹, §A¥i¥H»¡§Úªº¡y¤Ñ¥D¥u¦b¥½¤é¤~¼f§P¤HÃþ¡z§_©w¤F¡u¨ä¥L¯ßµ¸¡v, ¦ý§Ú¤]¥i¥H»¡§Aªº¡y¤Ñ¥D¦b¥½¤é«e¤w¸g¼f§P¤HÃþ¡z¬O§_©w¤F¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v, ¦ýµL½×¦p¦ó, ³oÀ³¸Ó³£¤£¯A¤Î§A¹ï§Ú«ü³dªº¡u¹ï¸t¸g¹D²zªº²z¸Ñ¤£¥¿½T¤F¡v.
(2) §A»¡¡G¡yªk³W©Î±Ð¸q©ÒªÖ©wªº¡u·N«ä¡v©M±z´¢¼¯¥X¨Óªº¡u¥Øªº¡v¬O¨â¦^¨Æ¡C¡z§Ú¤Q¤À¦P·N§Aªº¨£¸Ñ, ¦ý§A»{¬°¡uªk³W©Î±Ð¸qªÖ©w¦³¤H¤U¦aº»¡v, ¤S¬O§_¥u¬O§Aªº´¢¼¯©O? ¦pªGªk³W©Î±Ð¸qªÖ©w¦³¤H¤U¦aº», ¬°¤°»òn¨º»ò¶¡±µ¦a¥ÎDS623, ¦Ó¤£ª½±µ¤F·í¼g¡y¦p¦³¤H¤£»¡¡G¡u§ÚªÖ©w¦³¤H¤U¦aº»¡v, ¨º¤H¸Ó¨üµ´»@¡v©O?
(3) ·íµM¦pªG©Ò¦³¤H³£¯à¥¿½T¦a²z¸Ñ¹D²z, ¤Ñ¤U¶¡´N¦A¨S¦³²§ºÝ¥X²{, ¤£¹L, ³sSimon¤]¥i¥H§â°¨¤B¸ô¼wªº¡u¤H±o±Ï¬O¥u¥Ñ©ó«H¼w¡v©M¡u¤Ñ¥D¥u¦³¤T¦ì¡v¨Ö½×, §A´N·|©ú¥Õ¡u¥¿½T¦a²z¸Ñ¹D²z¡v¨Ã¤£¬O¨¥½Í¶¡´N¯à¹F¨ìªº°ÝÃD.
(4) ¥t¥~, ¶¶±a¤@´£, DS623¥X²{ªºì¦], ´N¥¿¬O¬°»é¥¸¨º¨Ç¿ù»~²z¸Ñ¡u¤Hªº±o±Ï¥þ³¡¬O¤Ñ¥D¹w©w¡vªº¤H: ³o¨Ç¤H»{¬°¡u¤Hªº±o±Ï¥þ³¡¬O¤Ñ¥D¹w©w¡v, ©Ò¥H¤Ñ¥D¨S¦³¹w©w±o±Ïªº´N¬O¡u¤£±o±Ï¡vªº¤H, ¦]¦¹¤Hªº¡u¤£±o±Ï¡v¥u¬O¥Ñ©ó¤Ñ¥Dªº¨S¦³¹w©w³o¨Ç¤H±o±Ï. ¬G¦¹, DS623¤@¤è±ªÖ©w¤Ñ¥D¬O¹w©w©Ò¦³¤H³£±o±Ï; ¥t¤@¤è±«ü¥X¤Hªº¡u¤£±o±Ï¡v¬O¦]¬°¦Û¤vªº¸o, ¦Ó¤£¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº¹w©w.
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Elsle
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤U¤È 05:57:38
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Hubert ¥S :
¬JµM¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v»P¡u¤Ñ¥D¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v¦b¸t¸g¤W³£§ä¤£¨ì¤ä«ù
¨º»ò¥u¯à½T©w : ¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¤Ö©ó¤T¦ì
¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¥i¯à¦h©ó¤T¦ì¡v³oÓµ²½×¬O«ç»ò¨Óªº ?
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/9 ¤U¤È 06:57:58
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
¤@
»¡¡u¤Ñ¥D¦b¥½¤é«e¤w¼f§P¤H¡v¡A«ç¼Ë¡u§_©w¡v¤Ñ¥D±Ð±Ð²z©Ò¨¥ªº¡u°ò¥»¯ßµ¸¡v¡H
¤p§Ì¥i¨S¦³»¡¡u¤Ñ¥D¡y¥u¡z¦b¥½¤é«e¼f§P¤H¡v°Ú¡I
´N¥H³Ìªñ©Ò±`´£¤Îªº´I¯Î»P©Ô¥`¸S¤ñ³ë¬°¨Ò¡A´I¯Î¨ü»@®É¡A¥L¨ä¾lªº¥S§Ì¤´µM¦b¥Í¡C¤Ñ¥Dªº½àµ½»@´c¡A¦b¦×¨´_¬¡¤§«e´N¤w¹ê²{¡C
¤G
±Ð¸qªíz¡A¤£¤@©w¬On¥H¡uµ´»@¡v§Î¦¡ªí¹F¡C¦³¬Û·í³¡¤Àªº·í«H¹D²z©M·í¦u±Ð¸q¡A¬O±q¨Ó¥¼³Q¡u¶©«©wÂ_¡vªº¡C¥¼³Q©wÂ_¡A¬O¦]¬°¸Ó¶µ¹D²z¦b¾ú¥v¤¤¥¼¦³¥X²{ÄY«ª§Ä³¡AµM¦Ó¸Ó¨Ç¹D²z¤´¾Ö¦³¡uºD±`¦Ó´¶¹M¡v¡]ordinary and universal¡^ªº°V¾ÉÅv«Â¡C
¡uªk³W©Î±Ð¸qªÖ©w¦³¤H¤U¦aº»¡v¡A¨Ã¤£¬O¤p§Ìªº¡u´¢¼¯¡v¡C¤p§Ì¦b¡u«H¼wªºn¨D¡v¤@ÃD¤¤¡A¤w«ü¥X§Y¨Ï¬O¦b±ë¤G¤j¤½·|ijªº¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡nY¤zÃö©ó¡u¥Ã»@¡vªº¬q¸¨¡]LG 16, 48¡^¡A¥ç¬O±q¡u¨Æ¹ê¤W½T¦³¤H¨ü»@¡vªº²z¸Ñ¤¤©w«¬ªº¡C´N³s¸Ó¥÷¤åÄmªº¡u·|ij¬ö¿ý¡v¡]Acta synodalia¡^¥çªÖ©w¦¹¤@¡u²z¸Ñ¡v©M¡u¦r¸q¼á²M¡v¡B»P·|ªº¯«ªøÌ¥H¸Ó¶µ²z¸Ñ¨Ó§ë²¼ªí¨MÃÙ¦P¸Ó¨Ç¬q¸¨¡C§@¬°¤Ñ¥D±Ð®{¡AY§Ṳ́£«ö·Ó¸Ó¨Ç·N¸q²z¸Ñ¸t¸g©M¸t¶Ç¡A¬O·¥¦MÀI©M«_¥¢ªº¡C
¤T
¹ï±Ð¸qªº¥¿½T²z¸Ñ¡A¬O¦b©ó»P±Ð·|¤@°_²z¸Ñ¡]sentire cum Ecclesia¡^¡C
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DS623ªº°V¾É¥]¬A¡G
¤@¡B¤Ñ¥D¡uÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡vªº¦P®É¡A¥ç®e³\³Ì«á¡u¦³¤H¤£±o±Ï¡vªº±¡ªpµo¥Í¡C°ò©ó«H¼w¡A§Ú̬۫H¨âªÌ¨Ã¤£©èIJ¡C
¤G¡B¤H±o±Ï¬O¡u¥Ñ©ó¡v¤Ñ¥Dªº¹w©w¡A¤£±o±Ï«h¬O¡u¥Ñ©ó¡v¤H¦Û¤vªº¸o´c¡C¤Ñ¥Dªº¡u¤£¹w©w¡v¡]ìè±ó¡^¡A¹ê»Ú¤W¬O¹ï¤H¡u«ùÄò©Úµ´¤Ñ¥D¡vªº®e³\¡C
Y¤£±q³o·N¸q¤U²z¸Ñ¡A«h¯SÛ¦h¤j¤½·|ij½×¤Î¡u¦¨¸q¡vªº²Ä¤»±øªk³W¡A¥ç¤£¯à³Q²z¸Ñ¡C
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¡u¦aº»¨S¦³¤H¡vªº¥i¯à©Ê¡A»P¡uEdward¤£´¿¥Ç¸o¡vªº¥i¯à©Êµ¥¦P¡C¦b¨Æª«¹ê²{¹Lµ{¤¤¡A¬OEdward¦Û¤v§_©w¤F¡uEdward¤£´¿¥Ç¸o¡vªº¥i¯à©Ê¡F¦P¼Ë¡A¬O¤H¦Û¤v§_©w¤F¡u¦aº»¨S¦³¤H¡vªº¥i¯à©Ê¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/10 ¤U¤È 04:58:13
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To Edward,
(¤@) ¹ï©ó²Ä¤@ÂI, §Ú¤£·Q©M§Aª§½×¤U¥h, ¦]¬°·N®ð¤§¨¥¹ï«H¥õ¦¨ªø¨S¦³¥ô¦óÀ°§U. ¤£¹L, ¦pªG§A¯àµý©ú´I¯Î»P©Ô¥`¸S¤£¬O¤ñ³ë, ¦Ó¬O¨Æ¹êªº¸Ü, ¨º»ò, §Ú´N¦P·NªÖ©w¦³¤@Ó¤H¦b¦aº»¡C
(¤G) §Ú¬Ý¤£¥X¡u¥Ã»@¡vªº¬q¸¨©M¡u¨Æ¹ê¤W½T¦³¤H¨ü»@¡v¦³¥ô¦ó¥²µMÃö«Y, ¥i§_¶i¤@¨B¸ÑÄÀ.
(¤T) ¹ï±Ð¸qªº¥¿½T²z¸Ñ¡A¬O¦b©ó»P±Ð·|¤@°_²z¸Ñ¡]sentire cum Ecclesia¡^¡C§Ú»{¦P, ¤£¹L±Ð·|¤£³æ¬O«ü±Ð·|·í§½, ¤]¦³°ò·þ©M§ÚÌ.
(¥|) ©Ò¿×¤ô¯à¸ü¦à, ¥ç¯àÂЦà, §Ú¤£¬O»¡§A²z¸Ñ¡uÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡v¥X²{°ÝÃD, §Ú¥u¬O»¡¾ú¥v¤Wªº½T¬O¦³¤H³o¼Ë»~¸Ñ¡u¤Ñ¥DÄ@·N©Ò¦³¤H±o±Ï¡v, ¦ÓDS623ªº½T¬OªÈ¥¿¤F³o¨Ç¤Hªº»~¸Ñ. ¨ä¹ê±Ð·|°V¾Éªº¥X²{¤£¬O¦b¸t¶Ç¤§¥~¥[½ÑÃB¥~±ø¤å, ¦Ó¬O¬°µÛªA°È¸t¶Ç, ¸ÑÄÀ¤H̹ï¸t¶Ç»~¸Ñªº¦a¤è.
(¤) ¤H¬O§_±o±Ï¬O¦³¨âÓ«nªº¤¸¯À: ¤Ñ¥Dªº©I³ê©M¤Hªº¦^À³, ¤Ñ¥D¨Ó¬O¬°¬@±Ï¯f¤H, ·í§AªÖ©w¦aº»¦³¤Hªº¦P®É, ¨ä¹ê¥ç¦P®ÉªÖ©w¤F¤Ñ¥D¬@±Ï¥þ¤HÃþªº¦æ°Ê¥¢±Ñ.
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/10 ¤U¤È 07:03:25
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
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±ë¤G¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡n²Ä¥|¤Q¤K±øªº¬q¸¨¡G¡u¡K¡K§ÚÌ¥²¶·¿í±q¥DªºÄU§i¡A®É±`ĵ±§¡A´Á±æ¦bµ²§ô¤F§Ú̲{¥@¥Í©Rªº±©¤@³~µ{¤§«á¡]°Ñ¾\§Æ¤E27¡^¡A¯à»P¥D¦Pu¤Ñ®b¡A¨Ã¥[¤J¨ü¯¬ºÖªÌªº¦æ¦C¤§¤º¡]°Ñ¾\º¿¤Ü¤31-46¡^¡v¡A¤£¹³Ãi´kªº´c¹²¡]°Ñ¾\º¿¤Ü¤26¡^¡A³Q¶S¤J¥Ã¤õ¡]°Ñ¾\º¿¤Ü¤41¡^¤Î¥~±ªº¶Â·t¤¤¡A¨º¸Ì¡y±N¦³«s¸¹¤Á¾¦¡z¡]º¿¤Ü¤G13¤Î¤Ü¤30¡^¡K¡K¡v¡C
Y»Õ¤U¦³¬Ý¹L¤p§Ì©Ò¤Þz¹Lªº¬q¸¨¡G
¡uIn reference to the text from Vatican II it is to be noted that initially there was no reference to the "eternal fire". The reference was explicitly inserted at the request of many bishops. We know as well, from the official Relatio, that the text was not intended to speak of the salvation of all men. From the same source we learned that "one bishop wanted a sentence to be included in which it would be clear that there are damned de facto, lest damnation remain as a mere hypothesis." The request was refused by the Theological Commission responsible for drafting the document, with the comment that "In [LG] no. 48 there are cited the words of the Gospel in which the Lord Himself speaks about the damned in a form which is grammatically future."¡v¡]James T. O¡¦Connor ¡§Von Balthasar and Salvation¡¨¡^
¡uGrammatical future¡vªº·N«ä¡A´N¬On«ö¤å¦r·N¸q¨Ó²z¸Ñ¥DC¿q¦bº¿ÄuºÖµ²Ä¤Ü¤³¹ªº¥½¥@¨¥½×¡G¡u±N¨Ó¦³¤H¨ü¥Ã»@¡v¡A¦Ó¤£¬O«ö¡u±ø¥ó¡v¡]conditional future¡^©Î¡u°²³]¡v¡]hypothetical future¡^ªº·N¸q¨Ó²z¸Ñ¡G¡u¡yY¡z±N¨Ó¦³¤H¯u¬O¨º¼Ë¡A¡y«h¡z¥LÌn¨ü¥Ã»@¡v¡C
¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡n²Ä¤Q¤»¸`¥ç³o¼ËªÖ©w¡G¡u¤£©¯¦h¦¸¦³¤H¬°´c¯«©ÒÄF¦Ó¯«´¼©ü°g¡A§â¤Ñ¥Dªº¯u²zµø¬°µê¦k¡A±Ë³yª«¥D¦Ó¨Æ©^¨ü³yª«¡A©Î¾K¥Í¹Ú¦º¦n¦ü¤Ñ¥D¤£¦s¦b¤@¼Ë¡A³´©ó¥¢±æªºµ´¹Ò¡C¡v
³o¸Ì©Òzªº¡u¤£©¯¦h¦¸¡v¬O§_«ü¯u¥¿µo¥Íªº¡]¦³¤H³´©óµ´¹Ò¡^¨Æ¥ó©O¡H¤å¥óªº©Ô¤Bì¤å©Òzªº¹Ï¹³¡]saepius [more often]... extremae desperationi [ultimate despair]¡^¡A¤ñ¤¤Ä¶¥»§ó¬°¦³¤O¡C
¸ÛµM¡A±z¤]³\·|¤£¬Û«HO¡¦Connor©Òzªº¡u¾ú¥v¡v¡A¤£¹L¡u¬d®Ú¨s©³¡v¹ê¦b¬O¤p§Ìªº¿³½ì¡A¤p§Ì²{¤wÁʤJ¤@¥»Ãö©ó¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡n§Î¦¨¹Lµ{©M±M³d¯«¾Ç©eû·|ªºÄÄÄÀ¤å¥ó¡CY±z¦³¿³½ìªº¸Ü¡A§Ú¥i¥H±N¸Ó¥÷¡urelatio¡vªºì¤å¦p¹ê¦a¥Z¸ü¥X¨Ó¡C
¦ýÁ¿¨ì§À¡A§Y¨Ï¯uªº·Ó§Û¥X¨Ó¡A±z¥ç¥¼¥²·|«H¡C
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»P±Ð·|²z¸Ñªº¡u±Ð·|¡v¡A¬O±M«ü±Ð·|ªº°V¾É·í§½¡C±Ð·|°V¾É·í§½©ÒÄÄÄÀªº¸g¸q¡A¹ï©Ò¦³±Ð¤Í§¡ºc¦¨¬ù§ô¤O¡]¡ubinding¡v¡^¡C§ÚÌ·íµM¤£±Æ°£Ó§O«H¤Í¥i¹ï¸t¸gªº¤º®e¹F¨ì¯u½Tªº²z¸Ñ©M¬}¨£¡A¦ý¸Ó¨Ç²z¸Ñ©M¬}¨£¤£¯à»P±Ð·|°V¾É·í§½ªº¨£¸Ñ¬Û¹H¡C
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¥¤ß¦Ó½×¡A±zı±o¤p§Ì¡u»~¸Ñ¡v¤FDS 623ªº°V¾É¶Ü¡H
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¤p§Ì¬Ý¤£¥X¡GªÖ©w¦³¤H¨ü¥Ã»@¡A¬°¦ó´Nªí¥Ü¡]¬Æ¦ÜªÖ©w¡^¡u¤Ñ¥D¬@±Ï¥þ¤HÃþ¡vªº¦æ°Ê¥¢±Ñ¡H
³onµø¥G±z±N¬Æ»òµø¬°¥¢±Ñ¡C¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡v¥ç¥i»¡¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº³Ì«á³Ó§Q¡C¦ó¥²n¤ñ¤Ñ¥D¡u§ó¥[¡v°õµÛ¡A¦Ó°õµÛ©ó¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡H
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/11 ¤U¤È 04:04:41
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To Edward,
//¡uGrammatical future¡vªº·N«ä¡A´N¬On«ö¤å¦r·N¸q¨Ó²z¸Ñ¥DC¿q¦bº¿ÄuºÖµ²Ä¤Ü¤³¹ªº¥½¥@¨¥½×¡G¡u±N¨Ó¦³¤H¨ü¥Ã»@¡v//
- «ö¤å¦r·N¸q¨Ó²z¸Ñ¥DC¿q¦bº¿ÄuºÖµ²Ä¤Ü¤³¹ªº¥½¥@¨¥½×¡G¡u±N¨Ó¦³¤H¨ü¥Ã»@¡v, §Ú¦P·Nªº½T¼W¥[¤F¡u¦³¤HªÖ©w¤U¦aº»¡vªº¥i¯à.
//¡u¤£©¯¦h¦¸¦³¤H¬°´c¯«©ÒÄF¦Ó¯«´¼©ü°g¡A§â¤Ñ¥Dªº¯u²zµø¬°µê¦k¡A±Ë³yª«¥D¦Ó¨Æ©^¨ü³yª«¡A©Î¾K¥Í¹Ú¦º¦n¦ü¤Ñ¥D¤£¦s¦b¤@¼Ë¡A³´©ó¥¢±æªºµ´¹Ò¡C¡v//
- ®¤§Ú·MÄø, ¬JµM³o¤H¬O¡u¯«´¼©ü°g¡v, §Y³o¤H¨Ã¤£¬O¬G·NIÂ÷¤Ñ¥D, §Y¬O³o¦æ¬°¤£ºc¦¨¤j¸o, ³o¤H¤S¦p¦ó·|¤@©w¤U¦aº»©O?
//»P±Ð·|²z¸Ñªº¡u±Ð·|¡v¡A¬O±M«ü±Ð·|ªº°V¾É·í§½¡C±Ð·|°V¾É·í§½©ÒÄÄÄÀªº¸g¸q¡A¹ï©Ò¦³±Ð¤Í§¡ºc¦¨¬ù§ô¤O¡]¡ubinding¡v¡^¡C§ÚÌ·íµM¤£±Æ°£Ó§O«H¤Í¥i¹ï¸t¸gªº¤º®e¹F¨ì¯u½Tªº²z¸Ñ©M¬}¨£¡A¦ý¸Ó¨Ç²z¸Ñ©M¬}¨£¤£¯à»P±Ð·|°V¾É·í§½ªº¨£¸Ñ¬Û¹H¡C//
- §Ú§Æ±æ±a¥Xªº¡u±Ð·|¬O°ò·þ, °V¾É·í§½©M±Ð¤Í¡vªº·N«ä, ¤£¬O«ü¥XÓ§O«H¤Íªº²z¸Ñ©M¬}¨£¤ñ±Ð·|¦n, ¦Ó¬O«ü¥X°V¾É·í§½¦bÄÄÄÀ¤Ñ¥Dªº»¡¸Ü®É, ¦o¬O·|¦Ò¼{¨ì¤£¦Pªº«H¤Í¹ï¶H¦Ó§@¥X§ïÅÜ. (¥¿¦p±Ð²zªº¤º®e³£¬O¤@¼Ë, ¦ý¬O§ÚÌ©M¤»·³¤pªB¤Í»¡¹D²z®Éªí¹F¤èªk, ¤@©w¤£·|©M¤T¤Q·³ªº¦¨¦~¤H¬Û¦P.) §Ú¤£±Æ°£¡u±Ð·|¡v¦b¾ú¥v¤¤´¿¸g¥H¡u±j½Õ¦³¤H·|¤U¦aº»¡vªºªí¹F¤èªk¥h¨Ï¤H¦Vµ½, ¦Ó¡u±j½Õ¦³¤H·|¤U¦aº»¡v¥ç¤£¬OÁÀ¨¥, ¦]¬°¥@¤W¯uªº¨S¦³¤H¯à«OÃÒ¦Û¤v¤£·|¤U¦aº», ¦ý¬O¡u±j½Õ¦³¤H·|¤U¦aº»¡vªº¥Øªº, ¤£¬O¬°¹w´ú¦³¤H¤@©w¤U¦aº», ¦Ó³o¥u¬O¦b¾ú¥v¤¤, ¤@ºØ³Ì¦³®Ä¥s·í®Éªº«H¤Í»·´c¦Vµ½ªºªí¹F¤èªk.
//¥¤ß¦Ó½×¡A±zı±o¤p§Ì¡u»~¸Ñ¡v¤FDS 623ªº°V¾É¶Ü¡H//
- ¥¤ß¦Ó½×¡A¦pªG§A¥HDS 623¨Ó¡uªÖ©w¦aº»¦³¤H¡v, §Úı±o§A¦Ü¤Ö¬O¡u»~¸Ñ¡v¤FDS 623¥X²{ªºì¦].
//³onµø¥G±z±N¬Æ»òµø¬°¥¢±Ñ¡C¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡v¥ç¥i»¡¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº³Ì«á³Ó§Q¡C//
-¦pªG¤Ñ¥D¬Oº¡¨¬©ó¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡v, ¨º»òÍ¢´N¤£·|¦³µÎªAªº¤Ñ¥D¤£°µ, n·MÄø¦a°¥Í¦¨¤H, µ¹§Ú̼J¯º, ¥´½|©M°v¦º. §Ú«H¤Ñ¥D, ¤£¬O¥Ñ©óÍ¢ªº¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡v, ¦Ó¬O¦]¬°¤Ñ¥D¥i¥H¦]¬°·R¤Hªº½t¬G, §âµL´cªº¦Û¤v¨ü»@, §âµLµ½ªº¤HÃþ¨ü½à.
//¦ó¥²n¤ñ¤Ñ¥D¡u§ó¥[¡v°õµÛ¡A¦Ó°õµÛ©ó¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡H//
- ³s¦ò®a¤]»¡:¡u¦aº»¤£ªÅ, §Ú¤£¦¨¦ò¡v, ¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v¤£¬O¤@¥÷°õµÛ, ¦Ó¬O¤@ºØ¨Ï©R.
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/11 ¤U¤È 11:37:56
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
±zªº³¯z¯dµ¹¤p§Ì¤@Ó¦L¶H¡G¤@´[±¡Ä@¡C
¤H®a¤Þz¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡nªº±ø¤å²£¥Í¹Lµ{©M¥Î¦rªº¥¿¦¡·N¸q¡A¨Ó»¡©úÀ³¥HÄY®æ¦r¸q¨Ó²z¸Ñ¡u±N¨Ó¦³¤Hn¨ü¥Ã»@¡vªº¨Æ¹ê¡A±z´N°¾°¾±N¥¦¦C¬°¡u¼W¥[¦³¤H¤U¦aº»ªº¥i¯à¡v¡C§Ú¶}©l©ú¥Õ¡A¬°¦ó¦³¨Ç¤H»{¬°¡G¸Ó¥H¡u¥tÃþ¡vªº·N¸q¡A¥h¡u²z¸Ñ¡v¥DC¿qªº´_¬¡¡A±q¦Ó§_©w¨Æ¥óªº¡u²{¹ê¡v¡C
¤¤Ä¶ªº¡u¯«´¼©ü°g¡v¡Aì¤åºÙ¬°¡uevanuerunt in cogitationibus suis¡v¡A¦r±·N«ä¬°¡G¡u¦b¤ß«ä¤W°l¨DªÅµê¡v¡A¨ÃµLÁô§t¯«¸g¬ì¾Ç¤Wªº¡u¯«´¼¿ù¶Ã¡v©Î¡u¤£¬Ù¤H¨Æ¡v¡]mentally confused / dull¡^ªºÛ²z§K³d±ø´Ú¡C
¶¶±a¤@´£¡A³o¸Ì©Ò¥Îªº¬O§¹¦¨¦¡¡]perfect tense¡^¦Ó¤£¬O±N¨Ó¦¡¡]future tense¡^¡C±Ð·|¤£³æ¥H±Ï¥D©Ò¨¥ªº¡u±N¨Ó¦¡¡v¥h«ü¡u±N·|¦³¤H¤U¦aº»¡v¡A§ó¬O«ü³o¤è±ªº¹w¨¥¤w±o¨ìÀ³Åç¡B¥BÄ~Äò±o¨ìÀ³Åç¡G¡u¦³¨Ç¤H¤w¤U¦aº»¡v¡C
±N¤@Ó¯u½T©RÃD¡Aº¥ý±N¥¦¡u¬Û¹ï¡v¡]relativize¡^¤ÆµM«á¡u¤u¨ã¡v¡]instrumentalize¡^¤Æ¡A¦A¥Î¤@Ó¦Û³]ªº¡u¥Øªº¡v¡]purposement¡^¨Ó±N¥¦§á¦±¡]distortion¡^¡C
¾å©Þ¥S¯u¬O°ª©Û¤F¡C
¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v
³o¬O¤@ºØ¤ñ¤Ñ¥D§ó°õµÛªº°õµÛ¡B¤ñ¤Ñ¥D§ó¤¯·Oªº¤¯·O¡C
¡uI will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.¡v (Rom 9:15)
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/12 ¤W¤È 11:16:48
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To Edward,
(1) ¬JµM¡m±Ð·|¾Ë³¹¡nªº±ø¤å¬O·Q«H¤Í¡uªÖ©w¦³¤H¤U¦aº»¡v, ¦Ó¼f§P¥ç¤w¸g¶}©l¤F, ¬°¦ó±Ð·|n¥H¡uGrammatical future¡v¥h²z¸ÑC¿qªº»¡¸Ü, ¦Ó¤£¥Î¡uGrammatical present/perfect continuous¡v©O¡H
(2) §A¬O§_«ü¥X¤H¡u¦b¤ß«ä¤W°l¨DªÅµê¡v´N¤@©w¬O¤H¡u¬G·N¡vIÂ÷¤Ñ¥D? ¬O§_¡u¦b¤ß«ä¤W°l¨DªÅµê¡v´N¤@©w¨S¦³Áô§t¡u«D¦]¤v¸o¡vªº¤¸¯À?
(3) §Ú»¡:¡u¤Ñ¥D¥i¥H¦]¬°·R¤Hªº½t¬G, §âµL´cªº¦Û¤v¨ü»@, §âµLµ½ªº¤HÃþ¨ü½à¡v, ¦³¤°»ò§á¦±¸t¸gªº¦a¤è, ½Ð«ü¥¿!
(4) ³s¥s¤H¤£°õµÛªº¦ò®a¤]»{¬°¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b ¡¨¤Ñ°ó¡¨¡v¤£¬O¤@ºØ°õµÛ, ¬Ý¨Ó, °õµÛ¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº°õµÛ¡vªº¤H¬O§A.
(5) §A¹ê¦b¤Óý^Á|§Ú, ¥@¤W¦³½Ö¯à¤ñ¤Ñ¥D§ó¤¯·O? ¦b¨Æ¹ê¤W, §Ú¥u¬O¤ñ§A¤¯·O, ¦b«H¥õ¤W, §Ú¬Û«H¤Ñ¥D·|¤ñ§Úªº¤¯·O§ó¤¯·O¡C
(6) ¡uI will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.¡v (Rom 9:15) ¸Õ°Ý¤Ñ¤U¶¡½Ö¤H¬O¨S¦³¤Ñ¥Dªºmercy©O? »{¬°¬O¨S¦³¤Ñ¥Dªºmercyªº¤H, ¨ä¹ê¥u¬O³o¤H¦Û¤v¨S¦³µoı. (¬Û«H§Aª¾¹D¦³Ófootprintªº¬G¨Æ.)
ªº½T, §Ú̪º©v±Ð¬O¥Ñ¤Ñ¥D¹ï¤Hªº¤@´[±¡Ä@¶}©l, §A¦P¤£¦P·N?
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/13 ¤U¤È 09:06:46
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
¤@¡B¡uGrammatical future¡v¬OC¿q¦bºÖµ¤¤©Ò»¡ªº¸Ü¡G¡u³o¨Ç¤Hn¶i¤J¥Ã»@¡A¦Ó¨º¨Ç¸q¤H«on¶i¤J¥Ã¥Í¡v¡C¡u±N¨Ó¦¡¡vªº¬O¨ºÓ¦r¡]§Æþ¤å¡Gapeleusontai¡F©Ô¤B¤å¡Gibunt¡^n¥H¡u¤åªk·N¸q¡v¦Ó«D¡u±ø¥ó·N¸q¡v¥h²z¸Ñ¡C
¤G¡B«ö·Ó±ø¤åªºµ²ºc¦Ó¨¥¡A¨Ã¤£Áô§t¡u«D¦]¤v¸o¡vªº¤¸¯À¡C
¤T¡B¤Ñ¥D¥H¨ä®¦Ãd¡A¨Ï´c¤H¬Ô¨Ì¦Ó¯u¹ê¦a¡u¦¨¬°¡v¸q¤H¡A¦A¬I¥H½à³ø¡C
¥|¡B¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v¬J¨S¦³¸t¸g¥ç¨S¦³¸t¶Çªº¤ä«ù¡A¦p¦ó¥i²z¸Ñ¬°¡u¤Ñ¥Dªº°õµÛ¡v¡H¦ò®a¬Û«H¡u½ü°j¡v¡A±z¬O§_¥ç¬Û«H¡H
¤¡Bù°¨®Ñ²Ä¤E³¹¤£³æ»¡¤Ñ¥D¡un®¦«Ý½Ö¡A´N®¦«Ý½Ö¡v¡A¥ç»¡¡uÍ¢Ä@·N¨Ï½Ö¤ßµw¡A´N¨Ï½Ö¤ßµw¡v¡AY±zn¥H¡u¥þ³¡¤H¡v¨Ó²z¸Ñ¤Ñ¥D®¦«Ýªº¹ï¶H¡A¨º»ò¡A±z¬O§_nªí¥Ü¡G¤Ñ¥D¦P®É¡u®¦«Ý¡v¤@Ó¤H¡A¤S¦P®É¨Ï¸Ó¤H¡u¤ßµw¡v©O¡Hn¤Ñ¥D§@¤@Ó¦P®É¬O¡u¶Q«©MÀ³¶i¤J¥úºa¡v©M¡u¨õ½â¤ÎÀ³¨ü·´·À¡vªº¾¹¥×¡H
¤»¡B¤Ñ¥Dªº±Ï®¦p¹º¨Ã«DÍ¢ªº¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v¡A¦Ó¬O¡u祢±¡§ÚÄ@¡vªº¡CÍ¢±q¤£§_©w¡B¬Æ¦Ü«P¦¨¤Hªº¦Û¥Ñ¦X§@¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/13 ¤U¤È 10:48:05
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To Edward,
¬Ý¨Ó²Ä¤@ÂI©M²Ä¤GÂI¦A°Q½×¤U¥h¤]¨S¦³·N«ä, ¤£¹L, ¤Q¤À¦hÁ§A´£¨Ñªº¸ê®Æ, ¨Ï§Ú§ó²M·¡±Ð·|¹ï ¡¨¤H¤U¦aº»¡¨ ªº¥ß³õ.
¤T¡B§A¬JµM»¡¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡v¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº©v¦®¤Î³Ì«á³Ó§Q, ¡u¤Ñ¥D¥H¨ä®¦Ãd¡A¨Ï´c¤H¬Ô¨Ì¡v¤w¸g¦³¹H¡uµ½ªÌ¨ü½à¡A´cªÌ¨ü»@¡vªºì«h, °£«D§A»{¬°¤Ñ¥Dªº®¦Ãd¬O¤@¥÷¹ï´c¤HªºÃg»@.
¥|¡B§Ú¤£¬OªÖ©w¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v, ¤£¹L§Ú¬Û«H¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×Âk¨Ì¨Ã»P¤Ñ¥D¤@°_¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v¬O¤Ñ¥D©ÒÄ@·N¨£ªº, Ãø¹D§A»{¬°¤£¬O?
¤¡B§Y¬O§A¨ä¹ê»{¬°¤Ñ¥D¥u®¦«Ý¸q¤H? Ãø¹D§A¦³¨S¦³Å¥C¿q»¡¹L: §Ú¤£¬O¨Ó¥l¥s¸q¤H, ¦Ó¬O¥l¸o¤H(¨¦2:17)? §A¬O§_»{¬°C¿q¤@¤è±¡u¥l¥s¡v¤@Ó¤H¡A¤S¤@¤è±¨Ï¸Ó¤H¡u¤ßµw¡v? ÁÙ¬OC¿q¥u¡u¥l¥s¡v¥L¤£¨Ï¸Ó¤H¡u¤ßµw¡vªº¤H?
¤»¡B¤Ñ¥Dªº±Ï®¦p¹º¨Ã«DÍ¢ªº¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v? Í¢¬£»º¸t¤l¨ì¤H¶¡¤§«e¦³¨S¦³°Ý¤HÃþ¬O§_¦P·N©O? ¤Ñ¥D¥u¬O¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v¦a§â¦Û¤v³Ì¦nªº±Ï®¦¤èªk¹ê²{, ´Nºâ©úª¾¸t¤l·|¾D¤HI±ó°v¦º, Í¢¥ç¬°¨D¤HÃþªº±o±Ï¦Ó¥I¥X¤F¦Û¤v, ¡u¤Ñ¥D¬O¤HÃþªº¤Ñ¥D, ¤HÃþ¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº¤H¥Á, ¤£¹L´Nºâ¤Ñ¥Dªº¤H¥ÁIÂ÷¤Ñ¥D, ¤Ñ¥D¤´¤£·|IÂ÷¤Ñ¥Dªº¤H¥Á¡v,³o´N¬O¤Ñ¥Dªº¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v.
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/13 ¤U¤È 11:52:24
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¾å©Þ¥S¡G
¤@¡B«ö¤½¸qªºn¨D¡A¸q¤HÀ³¨ü½à¡A¦Ó´c¤HÀ³¨ü»@¡C¦]µÛ¤Ñ¥Dªº¼¦¼§¡AÂǵۮ¦Ãd¡A´c¤H±o¥H¯u¥¿¦a¡u¦¨¬°¡v¸q¤H¡A¥B¡u³ô·í¡v»â¨ü½à³ø¡C©Ò¥H¡A¬Y¨Ç¤H¨ü¤Ñ¥Dªº¡u®¦«Ý¡v©M¡u¥l¥s¡v¦Ó±o¥H¦¨¸q¡C³o´N¦p¸t«O¸S©v®{¦bPù°¨¤H®Ñ©Ò»¡ªº¡G¡u¤Ñ¥D¤£¦ý¥l¥sÍ¢©Ò¹w©wªº¤H¡A¦Ó¥B¤]¨ÏÍ¢©Ò¥l¥sªº¤H¦¨¸q¡A¨Ã¨Ï¦¨¸qªº¤H¤À¨ÉÍ¢ªº¥úºa¡v¡]ù¤K30¡^¡C
¤G¡BY§Ú¤í§A¤Q¸U¤¸¦Ó§An§ÚÁÙ¡A³o¬O¤½¸q¡CY§A¤£n§ÚÁÙ¡A«h³o¬O¼¦¼§¡C¨âªÌ¨Ã¤£©èIJ¡C
¤T¡B¤Ñ¥DÄ@·N¥þ¤HÃþ±o±Ï¡A¬OÄ@·N¥þ¤HÃþ³£¡u¦ÛÄ@¦a±µ¨ü¡v¡B¥B¡u²Å¦X¡vÍ¢±Ï´©ªº·NÄ@¡A¦ý¨Æ¹ê¤W«o¤£¬O©Ò¦³¤H³£³o¼Ë§@¡C³o¬ODS623ªº°V¾É¡C¤]³\¥i¥H»¡¡G¤Ñ¥Dµ¹¥@¤W¨CÓ¤H¡A³£¥ß©w¤F¤@Ó²×·¥ªº¤H¥Í¥Ø¼Ð¡]¤À¨ÉÍ¢ªº¥Í©R¡^¢w¢w¦ýÍ¢®e³\¤H©Úµ´Í¢¡B¨Ã¿ï¾Ü°¾Â÷¦¹¤@¥Ø¼Ð¡C
¥|¡B³onµø¥G§A«ç¼Ë¸ÑÄÀ¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v¡C³oÓ¦¨»yªº«ÈÆ[·N¸q¡A¬O¡G¡u«ü³B²z»PÂù¤è¦³Ãöªº¨Æ±¡®É¡A¥uÅU¦Û¤vÄ@·N¡A¤£¦Ò¼{¹ï¤è¬O§_¦P·N¡v¡]¡m®Ô¤å¤¤¤å°ª¯Å·sÃã¨å¡n¡^¡C¦b±Ï®¦ªº¹Lµ{¤¤¡A¤Ñ¥D¬O¥D°Ê¡A¦ý¤H¥ç¬O¡u³Q°Ê¤¤ªº¥D°Ê¡v¡C¥L¤£¬O¦p¦P¤@µLÆF¤§ª«¡A¯Âºé¦a¤Ñ¥D©Ò¾Þ±±¡]°Ñ¾\¯SÛ¦h¤j¤½·|ij¡G¡q½×¦¨¸qªºªk³W¡r¡^¡C¦]¦¹¡A§Ú¤£»{¬°¤Ñ¥Dªº¦æ¬°ÄÝ©ó¡u¤@´[±¡Ä@¡v¡C
¤¡BÃö©ó¡uI±ó¡v©M¡u©¾«H¡v¡A¤]³\§A¥i¥H°Ñ¦Ò¸t«O¸S©v®{¥H¤Uªº»¡¸Ü¡G¡u¦pªG§ÚÌ»PÍ¢¦P¦º¡A¤]¥²»PÍ¢¦P¥Í¡F¦pªG§ÚÌ°í§Ô¨ì©³¡A¤]¥²»PÍ¢¤@¦P¬°¤ý¡F¦pªG§Ú̧_»{Í¢¡AÍ¢¤]¥²n§_»{§ÚÌ¡F¦pªG§Ṳ́£©¾«H¡AÍ¢¤´µM¬O©¾«Hªº¡A¦]¬°Í¢¤£¯à§_»{¦Û¤v¡v¡]§Ì«á¤G11-13¡^¡C¥Ñ¦¹¥i¨£¡A°ÝÃD¤£¬O¥X¦b¤Ñ¥D¡A¦Ó¬O¦b©ó¤H¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/14 ¤W¤È 12:50:47
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To Edward,
(1) ¬JµM¤Ñ¥D¥i¥H¦]¼¦¼§¦Ó¤£n¤HÁٶšA¨º»ò§A¤S¬°¥iªÖ©w¤Ñ¥Dªº¼¦¼§¤@©w·|¦b¼f§P®É²×¤î©O?
(2) §A»¡:¡u¤Ñ¥DÄ@·N¥þ¤HÃþ±o±Ï¡A¬OÄ@·N¥þ¤HÃþ³£¡u¦ÛÄ@¦a±µ¨ü¡v¡B¥B¡u²Å¦X¡vÍ¢±Ï´©ªº·NÄ@¡A¦ý¨Æ¹ê¤W«o¤£¬O©Ò¦³¤H³£³o¼Ë§@¡C¡v³o§Y¬Oªí¥Ü¡u¥þ³¡¤H³Ì²×¦b¤Ñ°ó¡v¬O¤Ñ¥D©ÒÄ@·N, ¤£¹L¥u¬O¤H¥i¯à¥¼¥²°µ±o¨ì.
(3) §A»¡:¡u«ü³B²z»PÂù¤è¦³Ãöªº¨Æ±¡®É¡A¥uÅU¦Û¤vÄ@·N¡A¤£¦Ò¼{¹ï¤è¬O§_¦P·N¡v, §Ú·Q°Ý: C¿qªº±ÏÅ«¬O§_¦³±ø¥ó©Ê? ¥L¬O§_¥uÄ@·N¬@±Ï¹ï¤è¦P·Nµ¹¥L¬@±Ïªº¤H? ¹ï©ón°v¦ºC¿qªº¤@¯ZµS¤Ó¤H, ¥L̬O§_¤@©w¨S¦³±o¨ìC¿qªº±Ï®¦©O?
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edward
Posted - 2005/8/14 ¤U¤È 11:25:42
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¤@¡B¤p§Ì¨S¦³ªÖ©w¡u¤Ñ¥Dªº¼¦¼§¤@©w·|¦b¼f§P®É²×¤î¡v¡C¦ý¸t¸gªº½T´¿©ú¨¥¡G¤Ñ¥D¦b¼f§P¤§¤é¡A±N¹ï¯Ê¥F¼¦¼§ªÌ¯Ê¥F¼¦¼§¡C
¤G¡B¤£¥u¬O¤H¡u¥i¯à¥¼¥²°µ±o¨ì¡v¡A¦Ó¬O¡u¦³¤H½T¹ê¥¼¯à°µ¨ì¡v¡C
¤T¡B¥DC¿qªº±ÏÅ«¬O¬°©Ò¦³¤H¥B¨S¦³±ø¥óªº¡C¦ý©Úµ´»â¨ü±ÏÅ«®¦´fªº¤H¡A¦Ûµ´©óÍ¢ªº±Ï´©¤§¥~¡C
¥|¡B¸ò¾Ú©v®{¤j¨Æ¿ýªº°O¸ü¡A¦³¨Ç´¿°Ñ»P°v¦ºC¿qªº¤H¡A¦b¤¦¯¸`¬Ô¨Ì¤F¡C
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hubert
Posted - 2005/8/15 ¤U¤È 12:51:59
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To Edward,
¨ä¹êºî¦X§A©Ò»¡, §AªÖ©w¤H¤U¦aº»ªºì¦], ¤£¬O¥Ñ©ó¤Ñ¥Dªº¤@¤è, ¦Ó¬O¤Hªº¤@¤è, §AªÖ©w¦³¨Ç¤H¤@©w¬OµL¥i±ÏÃĪº. ¤£¹L, ¬°¤Ñ¥D¨Ó»¡, ¤Ñ¤U¶¡¨s³º¦³¨S¦³ªÖ©wµL¥i±ÏÃĪº¤H©O? ¤@Ӥߴ¼¥¿±`ªº¤H¦æ´c, ¬O§_ªí¥Ü¥L§¹¥þ¨S¦³ ¡§µ½(©Î¦Û¤v¥H¬°µ½)¡¨ ªº¥Øªº©O? ¤H±þ¨ä¥L¤H¬O§_¥Ñ©ó¥L³ßÅw¦æ´c±þ¤H©O? ²{¦bªº¥Ç¸o¤ß²z¾Ç«ü¥X, ¤H¥Ç¸o¤j¦h¬O¥Ñ©ó¦¨ªøµo®i®É©Ò²£¥Íªº¤ß²z°ÝÃD¦Ó³y¦¨ªº, ©Ò¥H²{¤µ¤å©úªÀ·|¹ï¥Ç¤HªººA«×¤w¸g¶}©l¥Ñ¥~¦bªºÃg³BÂàÅܨ줺¦bªº»²¾É. ¤Ñ¥D¬JµM¬O§Ú̪º¤Ñ¥D, ²{¤µªÀ·|¤]¯à¥H¤@Ó§ó¶}©úªººA«×¥h¹ï«Ý¥Ç¤H, §Ú¯uªº¤£´±¬Û«H¤Ñ¥D¥u·|³æ¾Ì¤Hªº¥~¦b¦æ¬°¦ÓªÖ©w¤Hªºµ½»P´c, ¨Ã¥H¤õ¿Nªº¤è¦¡¥hÃg³B´c¤H.
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