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sheep
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Posted -
2001/11/7 下午 06:46:43
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在台灣的sheep兄想恭請香港教會或任何教友提供聖經章句證明煉獄的存在解惑我的問題，最近，在教會內部的某神學家（屬於改革派）在網上公開他自己不相信煉獄的存在，並主張否決煉獄的存在，他的言論造成很多基督教友的熱烈呼應，我沒有站起來發言，因我自認對煉獄不了解，加上某新加坡天主教友站起來發言提供不少聖經章句證明煉獄的存在，可惜！某神學家的神學很豐富及口才佳，讓人無法反駁，教友的言論自然被否決了。如果我站起來發言，恐怕自量不力吧！現在我沮喪地來這裡逛逛..雖然我知道某天主教會提供的聖經章句證明煉獄的存在，但是我覺得教會的說法太少了，難怪很多教友不瞭解煉獄的真正意義！我希望有人給我解釋煉獄的意義和聖經章句，使我完全瞭解煉獄的意義。謝謝！主佑平安！
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Cecil
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2001/11/8 上午 09:49:48
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sheep兄弟,我亦"半桶水"的可以哩!
不過,我知道這'萬民四末'的題目,今天教會在教理上,以'新天新地'的說法取代之,所以我跟你同坐一船-想知,卻不知。
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小橋
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2001/11/10 上午 10:55:54
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以下是本人年前出席陳日君主教的「末世論」課時所寫下的筆記，希望能幫助各位了解煉獄的思想。筆記如有任何謬誤，一概由筆著負責。
聖經根據
瑪12:31說，有些罪不論在今世或來世都不可能被赦免的，因此推斷有些罪是要在來世才被赦的；格前3:15說，若人的工程被焚燬，他就要受到損失，他自己固然可得救，可是像從火中經過的一樣。由此推斷，就算人死後已肯定得救，但因某些罪未能在今世獲得赦免，或補贖仍未完成，要經過火中的淨化，才能達至救恩的圓。此淨化的過程在以往稱為煉獄，今日較適當地被稱為淨煉。因此，淨煉就是永遠的得救已得到肯定（已接受了天主），但仍不足以得到必須的聖德，以進入天堂的福樂中。
淨煉的需要
人一生中必定面對誘惑，無論多熱切愛主，仍不免有不完善的地方（起伏）；已成義的人若沒有天主的特恩，不能畢生連小罪也不犯一個（DS 1573）。
因為人生有很多不完善之處，所以仍有以下犯罪的原因：
自我中心──自我中心的趨勢，表達於空洞的自負、驕傲、冷淡、缺乏愛，在下意識和半意識之中主導人的生命。
人格的複雜性──在人格裡，德行與過錯是錯綜複雜，糾纏不清的，弱點可以發展為美德，要除去錯誤時也可能把連帶的美德也一併除去，要到最後審判中，天主才把善從惡之中抽取出來。
人的罪影響宇宙──人的一生，會影響到整個歷史，甚至整個創造。因就算罪已被赦，但人仍要對自己罪所引進世界的混亂負責；人拒絕天主時，也同時在世界裡打開了混亂、不公義、驕傲和憎恨的大門。
宇宙與人關係不和諧──物質世界所受的影響亦會反映到他身上，他要承受物質世界的反應，因此人死時會覺得自己與宇宙並非絕對和諧，而他與天主未完全的關係亦透過他與宇宙的關係表達出來。
淨煉的性質與過程
天主的愛vs自己的不足──意識到天主的救恩，但自覺尚未預備好與天主面對面交談，是很痛苦的經驗；他對天主熾熱的愛使他陷於絕大的焦慮之中。
淨煉的過程：
1. 開放自我──以活力向天主開放自己，這樣天主更密切地通傳自己，使受壓縮的感覺漸漸消失。
2. 被愛籠罩──人性的自我逐漸被神聖的愛籠罩，人掙脫自困的牢獄，越來越有能力接受天主的自我通傳。
3. 既痛苦亦歡欣──達至既痛苦又歡欣，兩者不斷同時增長，越強烈感受到天主的愛時越痛苦。當他一步一步離開自己，走向天主時，他的喜樂亦漸漸加強。
4. 真正自由──當人終於擺脫自我（自由了），達至他本來真我的面目時，那就是淨煉的屆滿。
總而言之，淨煉是逐漸從朝向罪的傾向中解脫出來，是成全的愛，不被任何趨向罪而遮蔽的愛。
為亡者祈禱，以幫助死者的淨煉
聖神內眾人成為一體──由於諸聖相通功的基礎，團體內的每個成員，在聖神之內緊密結合，成為一個身體，以致每人的一舉一動也都深深地影響著團體的每一個人，天主可以透過一個人而把救恩傳給另一個人；這種關係不會因人的死亡而破壞。
求天主幫助亡者接受愛和補贖──活人的愛與忠誠，像流水般注入已亡者內，使他們也感受到喜樂、安慰及幫助，並向天主祈求，望天主能預備死者的靈魂，使他們可以配合天主的救贖計劃，接受補贖和愛。
為亡者祈禱不是免除淨煉的過程，這樣會剝奪他們達至完美成熟的愛的機會。
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Cecil
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2001/11/12 上午 10:04:55
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這淨煉的過程(1-4)會在今世發生嗎?
又,在淨煉的需要一欄,這樣的急需,亦在現世存在?
可否說,這煉獄也存在於現世,為煉靈祈禱,亦即同時為屬靈的人祈禱?
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靚仔
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Posted -
2001/11/12 下午 10:12:51
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一)會及可以,即傳統所說的補贖
二)過程存在
三)煉獄理解為過程而非地方,則已開始未完成,那便是成聖之路也.諸聖相通,功德無量.
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sheep
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2001/11/12 下午 10:13:58
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sheep兄帶來好消息，今晚我收到某教友寄來的教父與煉獄資料，使我肯定教會的訓導權無誤。^^
資料以下：
小弟從施安堂神父編譯，《古代教父神學》，台北，１９８３，第６２８至６３３頁，抄錄了一部分有關煉獄的教父言論，有些教父的英文名字我找得到，每段之後的號數我不知是甚麼號碼。
教父英文名字：
厄弗冷Ephrim
聖額吾略．尼森Gregory Nissan
文獻：
－辣當秋：至至義人們，幾時受到天主的審判，他們也將受到火的考驗；那時候，他們按罪罰之輕重多少，也承受火燒，但他們聖德成熟，充滿正義，故雖受火燒，也並不覺到火的威力．．．．６４６號。
－聖師厄弗冷－遺囑：弟兄們，當我死後第三十日時，你們要記念我為我獻祭，因為活人－世人－所做的祭獻，實有助於死人的靈魂；如果那瑪塔提亞的壯士．．．．為那陣亡兵士以及死於不義者獻祭，以滌除他們的愆尤，則天主子的司祭所行的祭獻，所做的祈禱，更該如何滌除亡者的罪污呢？－７５１號。
－聖額吾略．尼森：誰若附從私慾而走向邪惡無理的途徑，則在靈魂出離肉身後，立即如夢初醒，驚感所行之不是；屆時，除非他心靈的污點先經過烈火煉淨，他決不能分享天主的性體－１０６１號。
－聖奧斯定－「上主，求你不要在你的震怒中責罰我，求你不要在氣憤中懲戒我」（詠三七２）－上主，求你在此生煉淨我，使我光明整潔，將不需要用火來懲戒我；這樣我將得救而不像從火中經過的一樣（－格前三１５）：「他自己固可得救，可是仍像從火中經過一樣」－．．．．是的，人固已經過火煉而得救，但該火之烈，甚於人在此世所能受的一切痛苦！－１４６７號。
－聖教宗大額吾略：人出難此世時怎樣，將來他在公審判台前，也就怎樣！但我們該信：若人有小罪，他在公審判之前，先該經過煉火煉淨；為此真理基督說：出言干犯聖神的罪，今世及來世，都不得赦免」（瑪十二３２）－意即：有些罪能在今世獲赦；但有些罪能在來世獲赦．．．．但我早已說過，我們該信．．．．這祇指一些輕微的小罪而言，罷了－２３２１號。
－耶城主教聖濟利祿：我們（在聖祭中）為已亡的神父、主教以及一切曾生活在我們中間的弟兄們，尤其是為那些我們認為聖善的靈魂祈禱，並藉此神聖祭品，偉大犧牲在這祭台上的時候，特別為亡者獻上我們的祈禱－８５２號
－聖厄比法：什麼能比紀念亡者的名字更能得益呢？什麼能比勸告別人，相信亡者靈魂並不消滅，尚在天主台前生活著，更能令人嘆服呢？誰若宣稱亡者靈魂切望世上的弟兄們，為他們代禱，那真是熱心善工！因為我們若為那些沒有帶著大罪而死去的靈魂祈禱，一定有益的，因為大部份的亡者，在生時，往往有意無意地，犯著許多過失；所以他們需要我們世人為他們代禱，我們須知：亡者分為罪人與義人，為有罪的亡者，我們該代求天主慈悲，寬恕他們；為那些無罪的亡者．．．．我們該懷念他們、敬禮他們：－１１０９號。
聖師若望．基所：在舉行可欽可崇的奧蹟－聖祭時，念及亡者而為亡者祈禱，乃是從宗徒時代，就已規定的事，決不會徒勞無益．．．．當時民眾伸開雙手站著，由長老團領導，大家參與這壯烈的祭獻，而為眾人代禱，天主怎能不平息義怒而俯允他們的祈禱呢？這裡所謂「罪人」也包括那些已亡的信友在內，那是理所當然的－１２０６號。
－聖師奧斯定：這是信友們都知道的教會紀律－慣例：當信徒在天主的祭台前紀念殉道烈士時，他們不是為殉道烈士，而是為其他的亡者祈禱，因為殉道烈士不需要我們代禱，反之，我們該托他們代禱－１５１３號－天主會俯聽我們為亡者的祈禱，也會垂允我們為祂的教會或一些熱心人的祈禱．．．．１７８０號－參閱：１９３０號－１９３４號：「瑪加伯書記載：猶大部隊為亡者獻祭（瑪下十二４３）但這樣的舉動若在古經上，除此以外從未紀載過，則這在教會的慣例上權威很大，使後世的司祭在祭台前向天主祈禱時，也會追念亡者而為他們祈禱。」
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靚仔
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Posted -
2001/11/12 下午 10:24:51
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那號數是Enchiridion Patristicum的編號,該書由耶穌會士 Rouet de Journel所編LC Call #BQ 5217 .R68 1962.
英文可參The Faith of the Early Fathers. 施神父功不可沒,但他的譯文真的很......
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Cecil
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2001/11/13 下午 05:00:00
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有得看,已很好了,大家努力以赴吧.
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Mitrophanes
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2004/1/3 下午 07:32:58
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真是亂看書不如無書
為亡者祈禱是一回事
認為有天主教所定義的那種“煉獄”存在是另一回事
看教父著作看出一個煉獄來﹖﹖﹖
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edward
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2004/9/3 下午 07:03:02
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From Ludwig Ott's 《Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma》
§5. Purgatory
1. Reality of Purgatory
a) Dogma
The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory. (De fide.)
The cleansing fire (purgatorium) is a place and state of temporal penal purification.
The reality of purgatory was denied by the Cathari, the Waldenses, the Reformers and by some of the schismatic Greeks. On Luther's teaching, cf. the Schmalcaldic Article, Pars. II. Art. II, Sec. 12-13; on Calvin's teaching, Instit. III 5, 6-10; on the teaching of the Greek Orthodox Church the Confessio Orthodoxa of Petrus Mogilas, P.I, q. 64-66 (revised by Meletios Syrigos), and the Confessio of Dositheos, Decr. 18.
Against the schismatic Greeks whose objections was chiefly directed against a special place of purification, the Union Councils of Lyons and of Florence uphold the purifying fire and the expiatory character of the penal sufferings: "The souls of those who depart this life with true repentance and in the love of God, before they have rendered satisfaction for their trespasses and negligences by the worthy fruits of penance, are purified after death with the punishments of purification." D. 464, 693. Cff. D 456, 570 s. Against the Reformers, who asserted that the doctrine of the cleansing fire is contrary to Holy Writ (cf. D 777), and also reject it from the standpoint of their doctrine of justification, the Council of Trent laid down the reality of the cleansing fire and the value of the suffrages performed for the poor souls: purgatorium esse animasque ibi detentas fidelium suffragiis ... iuvari. D 983. Cf. D 840, 998.
b) Scriptural proof
Holy Writ teaches the existence of the cleansing fire indirectly, by admitting the possibility of a purification in the other world. According to 2 Mach. 12, 42-46, the Jews prayed for their fallen on whom had been found donaries of the idols, that their sins might be forgiven them. Then they sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered in expiation. Therefore they were convinced that they could help the dead by prayer and sacrifice to be freed from their sins. The sacred writer approves this course: "Because he (Judas) considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."
The Words of the Lord in Mt. 12, 32: "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven them, neither in this world nor in the world to come," leaves open the possibility that sins are forgiven not only in this world but in the world to come. St. Gregory the Great comments: "In this sentence it is given to understand that many sins can be remitted in this world, but also many in the world to come." (Dial. IV 39). Cf. St. Augustine, De civ. Dei XXI 24, 2. D 456.
In I Cor. 3, 12 St. Paul asserts: The work of the Christian teacher of faith who continues to build on the foundation, which is Christ, but in doing so uses wood, hay and straw, that is, performs bad work, will not stand when it is tested in the fire on the last day. V. 15: "If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: yet he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." that is, in the manner of a man who, in the catastrophe of a conflagration, loses everything and barely saves his life. The Apostle is speaking of a transient punishment of the Day of the General Judgment, probably consisting of severe tribulations after which the final salvation will take place. The Latin Fathers take the passage to mean a transient purification punishment in the other world. They interpret the words "as by fire" all too literally in the sense of a physical fire. Cf. St. Augustine, Enarr. in Ps. 37, 3; Caesarius of Arles, Sermo 179.
The words of Mt. 5, 26: "Amen, I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence (from the prison) till thou repay the last farthing," threaten, in the form of a Parable, the person who does not fulfil the commandment of Christian brotherly love, with just judgment by the Divine Judge. Through further interpretation of the Parable, a time-limited condition of punishment in the other world began to be seen expressed in the time-limited punishment of the prison. Tertullian understands by the prison the underworld, and by the postponement of the resurrection (to the millenial kingdom). (De anima 58.) Cf. St. Cyprian, Ep. 55, 20.
c) Proof from Tradition
The main proof for the existence of the cleansing fire lies in the testimony of the Fathers. The Latin Fathers especially employ the scriptural passages cited frequently as proofs for a transient purification-punishment and a forgiveness of sins in the other world. St. Cyprian teaches that penitents who die before the reception of the reconciliation must perform the remainder of any atonement demanded in the other world, while martyrdom counts as full atonement: "To be tormented in long pains and to be cleansed and purified from one's sins by continuous fire, is a different thing from expiating one's sins all at once by the suffering (of martyrdom)" (Ep. 55, 20). St. Augustine distinguishes between temporal punishments which must be expiated in this life, and those which must be expiated after death: "Some suffer temporal punishments only in this life, others only after death, still others both in life and after death, but always before this most strict and most final court" (De civ. Dei XXI 13). He frequently refers to an improving and cleansing fire (ignis emendatorius, ignis purgatorius; cf. Enarr. in Ps. 37, 3: Enchir. 69). According to his teaching, suffrages benefit those who are born again in Christ, and have not lived such good lives that they can dispense with such help after death, but not such bad lives that such help is no longer of any avail to them, that is to say, to an intermediate group between the blessed and the damned (Enchir. 110; De civ. Dei XXI 24, 2). Ancient Christian grave inscriptions beseech peace and quickening for the dead.
Speculatively, th existence of the cleansing fire can be derived from the concept of the sanctity and justice of God. The former demands that only completely pure souls be assumed into Heaven (Apoc. 21, 27); the latter demands that the punishments of sins still present be effected, but, on the other hand, forbids that souls that are united in love with God should be cast into hell. Therefore, an intermediate state is to be assumed, whose purpose is final purification and which for this reason is of limited duration. Cf. St. Thomas, Sent. IV d. 21 q. 1 a 1 qc. 1; S.c.G IV 91.
2. The Nature of the Punishment of the Cleansing Fire
On the analogy of the punishment of hell a distinction is made between poena damni and the poena sensus.
Poena damni consists in the temporary exclusion from the beatific vision of God. On the ground of the special judgment which has gone before, it is, however, associated with the certainty of the final beatification (D 778). The poor souls are conscious that they are children and friends of God and long for the most intimate unification with Him. Thus the temporary separation is all the more painful to them.
To the poena damni is added, according to the general teaching of the theologians, a poena sensus. The Latin Fathers, the Schoolmen, and many theologians of modern times, in view of 1 Cor. 3, 15, assume a physical fire. However, the biblical foundation for this is inadequate. Out of the consideration for the separated Greeks, who reject the notion of a purifying fire, the official declaration of the Councils speak only of purifying punishments (poena purgatoriae), not of purifying fire. D 464, 693. Cf. S. Thomas, Sent. IV d. 21 2. 1 a. 1 qc 3.
3. Object of the Purification
The remission of the venial sins which are not yet remitted, occurs, according to the teaching of St. Thomas (De male, 7, 11), as it does in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This act of contrition, which is presumably awakened immediately after entry into the purifying fire, does not, however, effect the abrogation or the diminution of the punishment for sins, since in the other world there is no longer any possibility of merit.
The temporal punishment for sins are atoned for in the purifying fire by the so-called suffering of atonement (satisfactio), that is, by the willing bearing of the expiatory punishments imposed by God.
4. Duration of the Purifying Fire
The purifying fire will not continue after the General Judgment. (Sent. Communis.)
According to the judgment of the Judge of the World (Mt. 25, 34. 41), there will be only two states, Heaven and Hell. St. Augustine says: "Let purification punishments be counted on only before that last and terrible judgment" (De civ. Dei XXI 16; XXI 13). As to the length of the purification process for the individual souls, nothing can be said in terms of years. Cf. D 1143.
For the individual souls the purifying fire endures until they are free from all guilt and punishment. Immediately on the conclusion of the purification they will be assumed into the bliss of Heaven. D 530, 693.
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edward
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Posted -
2004/9/3 下午 08:39:02
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Leonis Allatii de Utriusqe Ecclesiae: Occidentalis Atque Orientalis perpetua in dogmate, De Purgatorio consensione
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Cecil
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Posted -
2004/9/4 上午 09:40:05
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In I Cor. 3, 12 St. Paul asserts: The work of the Christian teacher of faith who continues to build on the foundation, which is Christ, but in doing so uses wood, hay and straw, that is, performs bad work, will not stand when it is tested in the fire on the last day. V. 15: "If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: yet he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." that is, in the manner of a man who, in the catastrophe of a conflagration, loses everything and barely saves his life. The Apostle is speaking of a transient punishment of the Day of the General Judgment, probably consisting of severe tribulations after which the final salvation will take place. The Latin Fathers take the passage to mean a transient purification punishment in the other world. They interpret the words "as by fire" all too literally in the sense of a physical fire. Cf. St. Augustine, Enarr. in Ps. 37, 3; Caesarius of Arles, Sermo 179.
這一段在思高版聖經也有註解.中文人可以看格前3:15.
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