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edward
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Posted -
2004/5/25 下午 08:05:22
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▲縫醪?ɐ?𤩸??◎
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edward
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Posted -
2004/5/25 下午 08:15:07
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（不知為何剛才打的字都成了怪獸和亂碼？現在再貼出來與大家分享）
《羅馬彌撒經書總論》，指出舉行彌撒時的一些姿勢。頗值得大家玩味。
關於「鞠躬」的一些段落：
「275. 鞠躬禮（inclinatio）是對某人，或代表某人的事物，表示敬意和尊崇。有兩種鞠躬禮，即淺鞠躬（點頭inclinatio capitis）和深鞠躬（俯身inclinatio corporis）：
a) 淺鞠躬禮：每次念天主聖三的名字時，以及念耶穌、聖母、及本彌撒敬禮的聖人名字時，點頭致敬。
b) 深鞠躬禮：向祭台；念「全能的天主，求祢使我誠心誠意……」及「上主，我們懷著謙遜和痛悔的心情」時；念「信經」中的「祂因聖神由童貞瑪利亞取得肉軀，而成為人」時；念「第一式感恩經」中的「全能的天主，我們懇切求祢，命祢的聖天使……」時。執事恭讀福音前，請求主祭祝福時，也作深鞠躬。
此外，主祭念「祝聖聖體聖血經」時，也稍微俯身。」
關於領聖體時的姿勢
「160. (……) 信友可依主教團的規定，跪下或站著恭領聖事。若站著領受聖事，在領聖事前宜按所規定的方式，以行動表達應有的敬意。」
按小弟的經驗中，袛有一次在聖母領報堂參與彌撒時，曾見過輔祭在光榮頌誦諗「主，耶穌基督，獨生子」時頓首的。
而在信經中「降生成人」一節鞠躬的，則絕無僅有了。
香港的教友大多是站著領聖體的。而當站著領聖體前，其實應有哪些特別的「致敬」行為呢？
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Cecil
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Posted -
2004/5/27 上午 09:28:54
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CREED信經的鞠躬禮在聖誕節時更加應行單膝跪禮,這更加沒有人做.
其實領經員可以安排這些指示的,但我未曾見過如此作的領經員(當然,上個聖誕節子夜彌撒我的英文組領經員照我的指示做了).
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Cecil
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Posted -
2004/5/27 上午 09:38:35
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又,總論提及在彌撒開始時主祭和輔禮人員須向在聖所內的聖體櫃行單膝跪禮(GENUFLECT),我們小堂的聖體櫃正正就是設在祭台正後方的聖所之內,但數十年來我從未見過有'禮儀隊伍'在彌撒前遊行進堂後在祭台前列隊單膝跪的.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2004/5/27 上午 09:48:51
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edward哥,小弟唸信經時有躹躬的.
記得有年參加樞機主持的大堂的子夜彌撒,是有下跪的.
反而我們教友有一奇怪習慣,就是說完"感謝天主"之後躹躬.不知從何而來.
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big5
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Posted -
2004/5/27 上午 11:01:37
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羅馬萬歲！
我領聖體前必向聖體行單滕跪。有神父話我造作。不理得咁多。
羅馬萬歲！
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/5/27 下午 03:40:16
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Edward: 其實應有哪些特別的「致敬」行為呢？
Are there any common gesture of veneration to the Blessed Sacrament that is feasible in any normal parish?
It seems that genuflection is not the choice, due to the "pastoral reason", like lack of space and numerous communicants causing an unduly long period of communion if each one is to genuflect before he receives the Host.
In that case, the old way of kneeling in a row to wait for the priest/extraordinary minister to distribute the Host seems better, if we insist in kneeling to receive the Host or "instincted" host.
"有神父話我造作。不理得咁多"---Not just "造作", other possible attributes: ""spiritual" pride", "showy", "triumphalistic", "medieval", "superstitious", "naive", "simple-minded", "out-dated", "un-ecumenical"---that's too much???
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big5
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Posted -
2004/5/28 下午 12:40:01
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""spiritual" pride", "showy", "triumphalistic", "medieval", "superstitious", "naive", "simple-minded", "out-dated", "un-ecumenical"?????你怎麼可以這樣人身攻擊駡我？休想羅馬勒令人人跪下領聖體，我的單膝跪哪裡及上得上跪著領聖體的人？
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Ignatius
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Posted -
2004/5/28 下午 07:25:45
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作為聖公會教友,我每主日仍能跪在聖體欄前領聖體,豈不是非常幸福？
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/5/28 下午 08:50:57
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Big 5: That's not my meaning. What I was saying is that the priest that rebukes you could have used the list of attributes against you too, which are of courset unfounded.
How can one attribute piety for "simple-mindness"??
I am actually overwhelmed by your attitude to the Eucharistic! If everyone is venerating the Blessed Sacrament like you and faithful to Rome like you, our Holy Mother Church won't be stuffed with dissents to the magisterium by stupid (and really naive) liberals, modernists and ecumeniacs.
That's the true "Pax Romana".
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big5
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Posted -
2004/5/31 上午 11:11:10
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羅馬萬歲！i must confess that i am a catho-holic....catho-maniac.... yes, anglicans are very "blessed" - being able to receive communion while kneeling - ok! but is that real presence in the Eucharist? Is the Anglican priesthood valid?? Just think of the female "priests" and "bishops" there are.... I am not sure what the situation it is in Hong Kong... afterall the first Anglican female "priest" ever was ordained in Hong Kong! Sorry, Ignatius, I don't want to upset you. But - if I were you, I would "come to Rome"! 請加入羅馬公教會吧！
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/5/31 下午 02:42:22
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"Is the Anglican priesthood valid?? Just think of the female "priests" and "bishops" there are..."
Sorry, this is not a matter for us to decide. Pope Leo XIII has already pronounced in "Curae Apostolicae" 1896 that Anglican orders are not valid.
female "priests" and "bishops"......Ah, missed something? How about "bishop" Gene, the sodomite?
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靚仔
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Posted -
2004/5/31 下午 04:14:06
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大家要討論的話,請理性持平地討論.
不要加入無謂的人身指摘,難道羅馬教會會少了"犯過錯"的教宗,主教,神父和教友嗎?
個別人仕的不當行為不等於他們的教會本身有問題.
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Augustine
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Posted -
2004/5/31 下午 06:01:28
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Is the Anglican priesthood valid?? Just think of the female "priests" and "bishops" there are....
This is not the reason of the invalidity of Anglican orders.
It is not the scandal in US or anything which invalidates Anglican orders.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2004/6/1 下午 02:40:47
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奧兄：
就是嘛，聖公宗的聖秩有效與否的問題根本核心不關乎男女，就算是男的，就有效了麼？也不關乎個別”主教”的操守，那麼在討論中提來做甚麼？
保持與其他基督徒團體友善的關係是梵二大公主義法令的要求，有不同的地方大家可以交談，和睦相處才是兄弟友愛之道吧．
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robot
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Posted -
2004/6/9 上午 01:19:24
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請問在唸懺悔經、光榮頌和信經時，領經員應該面向那一個方向才恰當？
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Ignatius
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Posted -
2004/6/9 上午 06:25:51
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當然是面向祭台啦!
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Cecil
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Posted -
2004/6/9 上午 09:45:37
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領經員的位置一般而言不能面向祭台,除非祭台何信眾不是面對面的而是半圓型的圍繞情況.
似乎.領經員在成聖體時應否回坐跪下更加是重要.
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edward
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Posted -
2004/6/9 下午 05:25:44
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小弟堂區是在學校禮堂舉行感恩祭的。領經員並沒有一個固定的「領經台」，而是一個free-standing的咪架和作為輔助的「譜架」，用以存放文件。咪架、祭台和群眾恰成一直角。
禮儀進行時，視乎情況去面向群眾或面向祭台。小弟傾向於：向群眾說話或講解禮儀的時候向群眾，而在對答經文時則向祭台。
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robot
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Posted -
2004/6/11 下午 11:52:36
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說得具體一點，我的窘境是：領經架是一個釘在柱上的旋轉臺，如果面向祭臺的時候就會躲到柱的後面，有人說不應該躲在柱後讓教友，尤其是司琴，看不見領經員。那麼領禱的時候面向教友好，還是面向前面的窗作私人祈禱模樣好呢？
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Cecil
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Posted -
2004/6/12 上午 11:48:18
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如果是我我會面向信眾但低首不作眼神接觸.
面對信眾說宣佈時當然要眼神接觸了.
在宣布福音時,如果不便回座,最好面向讀經台低首以手按胸口垂聽.
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