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內容
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共融合一
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Posted -
2008/6/23 下午 02:25:37
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人是人，是一個人，人怎可能受可以受水洗就變成天主的子女？
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simon
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Posted -
2008/6/23 下午 03:11:29
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Morrie,
你引述：「因為在彌撒當中，吾主耶穌自為司祭，將祂的聖身寶血，隱藏在餅酒形內，當作祭品......」
我完全同意。
彌撒中，那個餅酒，「變成了」耶穌的身體。
耶穌確是親臨彌撒中（其實幾個人一起祈禱，耶穌也親臨這些人中間）。
說耶穌才是彌撒的司祭，也可成立。
但說那個披著祭衣的神父「變成了」耶穌，那不是我們的信仰吧。
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simon
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Posted -
2008/6/23 下午 03:57:38
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共融合一：
人從來都是天主的兒女。聖洗是除去我們的罪，好能親近天主。
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獨立思考
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Posted -
2008/6/23 下午 05:50:38
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hkgck：
彌撒是感恩祭，是我在天主教慕道班時那些導師所講的！
另外，我想問神父變成耶穌此說法是出於天主教教理第幾條？又有沒有聖經引證？
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獨立思考
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Posted -
2008/6/23 下午 05:54:50
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共融合一：
聖經若望福音１章12節講到：「凡接受衪的，衪給他們，即給那些信衪名字的人權能，好成為天主的子女」
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simon
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Posted -
2008/6/24 下午 10:48:21
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我們是愈走愈遠了。
Magdalene 起這個論題，是想問葬禮的手續。我們都幫不上忙，還把話題岔開了。
有人可以正正經經給 Magdalene 一個有用的答案嗎？
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靚仔
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Posted -
2008/7/5 下午 12:52:06
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很久沒上來,原來現時的討論也幾有趣.
我只是不明白,有些人究竟是否明白自己在說甚麼,而又有甚麼"權威"去判斷他人為異端.
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/5 下午 11:07:25
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信仰可以令人變得平和包容，也可令人變得驕傲固執。
信仰像一把利劍，我們宜小心運用。
主佑。
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/7 上午 12:51:33
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有網友能解釋一下，甚麼是「神父以基督的位格」嗎？
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edward
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Posted -
2008/7/7 上午 09:01:32
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Dear all,
"In persona Christi" is a theological term with rich legal content. It means when a priest administers the Sacrament, he is authorised by Christ to do so and also acts in His own capacity. The priest is essentially the "agent" (in the scholastic sense of the term) of Christ.
Though the term denotes a very intimate union between Christ and His priests on earth during sacramental actions, it does not necessarily mean that the priest "becomes identical" with Christ.
The condition is similar to the occasion when a junior doctor sees patients in his employer's (the COS's) capacity without himself becoming the COS.
Therefore we can observe that when a devout priest celebrates the Holy Mass, he can at the same time be adoring Christ without "adoring himself".
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/7 上午 10:33:15
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Edward,
謝謝你的解釋。
我看了又看，「以基督的位格」和日常用語中的「代表基督」，意思其實是一樣。對嗎？
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靚仔
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Posted -
2008/7/7 上午 11:28:52
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Edward,
解釋得很好啊.
我懷疑上面的討論中,有多少人明白"位格"的真正所指.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2008/7/7 上午 11:32:25
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西滿,
任何基督徒在某程序上都代表基督,然否?
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/7 下午 04:54:21
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靚仔：
對呀！
所以hkgck說我提出異端，也有可能是代表基督說的。然否？
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edward
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Posted -
2008/7/8 上午 07:46:30
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Dear Simon,
The term "In persona Christi", as compared to "represents Christ", is one of stronger sense.
i) When A represents B, one can take A as an agent for recalling B, through some process of mental linkage.
ii) the stronger sense is that when A represents B, A shares some of B's proper power or competence to act.
The priest acts by the second sense. So when he celebrates a Mass, it is not a "simple drama" in which the mysteries of salvation are recalled in a cognitive (albeit however deep) manner, but that he is bringing about Christ's very own words (and their efficacious power in the sacraments) into their presence and effects at this moment of celebration.
It is for this reason that when he says "THIS IS MY BODY" we hear it as Christ himself is speaking. When he says "AND I ABSOLVE YOU OF YOUR SINS" we are really receiving Christ's assurance and issuance of His forgiveness of our sins.
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Mitrophanes
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Posted -
2008/7/9 上午 04:42:55
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當是en typo Christou而非en ypostasi Christou也
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/9 下午 11:34:24
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Edward,
我想我是明白你的意思。不過我比較頑固，我仍是覺得「代表基督」和「以基督的位格」分別不大。總之開彌撒時，神父是神父，神父不是基督。
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靚仔
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Posted -
2008/7/11 下午 04:47:01
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神父當然不是基督,但神父卻執行著基督的司祭職務.
我們說以基督的心為心,我的心當然仍是我的心,但在某特殊情況而言,我的心也是基督的心.
就如聖經所說,為最小的弟兄所做的,就是為基督做的.這小兄弟在某種意義下不單是代表基督,而且是基督.
希望你明白我想說甚麼,又希望我說得清楚,不至成為異端.
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simon
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Posted -
2008/7/12 上午 12:06:08
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靚仔，
你不用擔心啊。我是「異端」，如果我說你是「異端」，你就不可能是異端了！
明白嗎？
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