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作者
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內容
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/17 下午 04:17:47
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傳統上,主教於聖週四赦免公開的悔罪者,此禮原則上載於梵二前的主教禮書.
為何今次的集體悔罪禮不訂於聖週四舉行?
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Cecil
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Posted -
2003/4/19 下午 02:51:46
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It was first did at the Chrism Mass.
Then in our Parish at the Lord's Supper. It was announced that it would be done once more tonight (so I'd have it done thrice).
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/20 下午 11:22:55
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of course it can be done on chism mass, or at night on Lord's supper on Maundy Thursday. My question is why not just do it once at one mass on Holy Thursday. It make no sense, at lease for myself to have three or four "rite for reconciliation" on three days or within two weeks.
It seem to "dilute" the meaning of the rite for reconciliation.
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軍艦鳥
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Posted -
2003/4/22 上午 10:33:43
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Brother Handsome: Was the arrangement of the rite differed from Parish to Parish. In ours, the rite was held on each mass throughout the holy week and the first week of Easter. I wonder if it was necessary.
The Diocesan’s instruction announced, as read by the priest just before the communion rite that the laity can grant absolution if each individual has : i) the wish and desire to repent, and ii) he have to make individual confession at some other times after the SARs phenomenon is over.
My questions are :
1. Why the rite has to be held at each Mass? Just as you said, why not on Maunday Thursday?
2. If I was not prepared for the penance ( supposedly I was “clear” of big sin.), should I just stood and disregarded the rite that was going? Was I sinned then for breaching the 1st law?
3. Could there be a better arrangement besides this?
I try to make sense why the rite was held on “Easter Saturday”? Are we not celebrating the resurrection of Christ at the mass? Why should we indulge in try to analyzing if we were sinned. Supposedly all laity should faithfully repent against the sin before he/she should attend the mass.
Last but not the least, is it not the citing of “Lord’s prayer” before the communion rite a symbol of repentance?
My observation is that the arrangement has masked the symbol of penance.
Any view?
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Cecil
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Posted -
2003/4/22 上午 11:16:03
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For those who is aware of the need for repentance during Lent (well, every one 'should' know, but the truth is that many simply didn;t know), it does not matter, to myself, how many times this rite was being done.
However, for those who hitherto weren't even aware of its need, it may serve to remind them, if they turn up on all or any of the eucharistic celebrations during the Holy Week.
It is also true that not many could turn up for ALL the Easter Triduum - so far as could be seen, Holy Thursday's turn up rate was really poor in my place of worship. Then the rite on Holy saturday became necessary for those who couldn't attend Chrism mass nor the Lord's Supper.
Having been actively involved in parish work, you would know that many many lay faithful simply DO NOT understand what liturgy is about - what the various steps, gestures, actions, not to mention the rites themselves, stand for. Even though they may have done those for ten, twenty, thirty years.
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PAUL
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Posted -
2003/4/27 下午 01:16:23
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集體赦罪顯然不同告明聖事，故此是否所有教友與非教友都同樣獲得罪赦呢？此外，又是否滅除暫罰呢？
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/27 下午 09:39:09
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何謂"集體赦罪顯然不同告明聖事"?
現時非常時期所施行的集體赦罪是修和聖事的第三式,就聖事的果效而言,它和第一式的個別告明"完全"沒有分別.
"故此是否所有教友與非教友都同樣獲得罪赦呢？"
聖事的領受人是有限制的.有些人是不能有效地領受一件聖事的,我們稱之為"阻擋"如親兄妹是不能有效的締結婚配的.未受洗的人是無能力接受赦罪的.
另外,領受人是要知道自己是在領受聖事的,否則也是無效的,所以如果你以為這次集體赦罪不是"真的"告解聖事"那麼,很可惜,你可能沒有得到罪赦.
此外，又是否滅除暫罰呢？
傳統上,我們說告解聖事不會"完全"免去所有暫罰.
但聖週內至今日,你有多次領受全大赦的機會,而全大赦則可赦去一切暫罰.
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Augustine
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Posted -
2003/4/28 上午 11:52:58
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靚仔:
I forgot whether "attrition" is sufficient per se for validly receiving the absolution in confession. I guess this is enough per se.
But is this a minimum condition on the part of the penitent to be actually absolved? Or does there exist other minimum conditions (on the part of the penitent) besides "knowing and believing what is happening" as you said?
What puzzles me is: "How do we categorize a 'truly sorrowful and sincere' conscience from those who are not?"
Tough question for me, at least. I am just interested how confessors determine in such circumstances.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/28 下午 12:43:13
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脫利騰公會議的定斷:
還有一種不完全的痛悔，也就是所謂的下等痛悔(Attritio)；這是罪人，由於想到罪惡的醜陋以及怕下地獄，怕受(天主)懲罰所發出來的痛悔，這是普通人所發的痛悔；如果罪人發這種痛悔時，希望獲得罪赦而不願再犯罪的話，那麼，這聖公會議，宣佈這樣的痛悔(下等痛悔)，不僅不使罪人成為假善人而更成為罪人(參閱* 1456)，而且這也是天主的恩賜，聖神的推動；那時候聖神固尚未居住在悔罪人的心內，卻正在推動他，助佑他，給他準備走向義德的道路。固然，這樣的(下等)痛悔本身，若罪人不實領懺悔聖事，則不能使罪人成義，但這正準備罪人，在懺悔聖事中，獲得赦罪的恩寵。(DS1678)
所以為"有效"得到罪赦,有下等痛悔已經足夠.
I didn't said "knowing and believing what is happening" are the only minimum conditions, you do have to meet other conditions of the sacrament, for example as you said, contrition, at least the imperfect contrition is needed for the sacrament of reconcilation. other example is, you have to have a lawful minister to exerise the sacrament, etc.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/28 下午 01:07:59
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"How do we categorize a 'truly sorrowful and sincere' conscience from those who are not?"
宗座家庭委員會,聽告解者指南,三.2.指出:和好聖事的施行者應常謹記，這聖事是為了犯了罪的男女而建立。因此，除非有明確的反證據，否則應接納一切前來告罪的人，理所當然地視他們懷著誠意，願與仁慈的天主和好，雖則這誠意以不同程度出自一顆懺悔和謙虛的心.
另外該指南也指出一系列的原則去判斷一個悔罪者的良心狀況.(當然該指南所處理的是生命倫理的問題,但其原則可用於其他倫理問題)
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Augustine
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Posted -
2003/4/28 下午 03:36:31
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I quote:"I didn't said "knowing and believing what is happening" are the ONLY minimum conditions"...I am not questioning anyone, that's not what I meant.
NO, in my caption, I didn't put the word "ONLY". I was just asking what the other minimum conditions(if any) are. "A lawful minister and intelletual consent"...these two I have thought of too.
Another thing, can Perfect Contrition, under shortage of confessor for example, obtain the same effect as the absolution? I ask this because I have heard a touching story about catholics in 16th century Japan who lost all missionary priests(I forgot the details) in a Government persecution BUT KEPT their faith for centuries(300 years)! THere are stories about their confessing to each others to "replace" confession.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2003/4/28 下午 03:48:16
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Perfect Contrition WITH A TRUE INTENTION TO "CONFESS" THE SINS TO A PRIEST ASAP, DO ABSOLVE MOTRAL SINS.
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