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Posted -
2003/7/2 ¤U¤È 02:24:20

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Cecil


Posted -
2003/7/2 ¤U¤È 05:39:13

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edward


Posted -
2003/7/2 ¤U¤È 08:47:51

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Cecil


Posted -
2003/7/3 ¤U¤È 12:19:07

This 'practice' of the Church of course has its historical background - the Church came from an era not knowing what is franchise. The amazing aspect is that over more than two milleniums the Church has not grown out of this set practice.
The real 'crux', actually, is that 'truth' is NOT some thing borne out by popular opinion.
As some philosophers and thinkers put it - truth is some thing vertical, not horizontal.
In this respect, I have always refrained from advocating democracy as the ONLY true system there is in this world. NOr is the Church advocating it.
It has been blown out of proportion by unscrupulous politicians here.

Mitrophanes


Posted -
2003/7/3 ¤U¤È 08:40:44

Vox Populi, Vox Dei !

edward


Posted -
2003/7/3 ¤U¤È 09:57:33

Does this sentence: "vox populi vox dei" come from Scripture itself? According to my limited knowledge, it orignated from Peter of Blois (Epistulae 15)

¥h«D


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤W¤È 01:18:58

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ºÞ²z¤H­û


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤W¤È 06:08:37

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¤]³\¤£¤@©w­nª½¿ï¡A¦ý¬O¥D±Ð¦b±Ð·|¤ºªº¤u§@¡A¬O§_°µ¨ì¥Á¥Dªº¯À½è©O¡H¨Ò¦p¦b¦X¨Ö°ó°Ï¤@¨Æ¤W¡Aºâ¤£ºâ²Ê¼É¦X¨Ö©O¡H¦b¾Ç®Õ¦¬µLÃҨൣ¤@¨Æ¤W¡A¥D±Ð¬O§_¦³´L­«±Ð·|¤º¤£¦P·N¨£¤H¤hªº·N¨£©O¡H§Ú¦³ÂI¦sºÃ¡C

Cecil


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤W¤È 10:44:26

Åý§Ú¸Õ¤@¸Õ²z¸Ñ¨º¨â¥y©Ô¤B¤å:
Voice of the people, the voice of¡@¢Õ¢÷¢ì¡D
¤Ñ¥Dªº¤l¥Á§ó¥[¬O¡¨¸t¼äªº¨¹°ê¡¨¡D
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josemaria


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤W¤È 11:02:10

I agree that the voice of the people 'should be' the voice of God, since God dwells within them.
A pre-requisite, however, is that the 'people' is acting in a way that is not motivated by selfishness like fear, greed, lust, power......When any of these are present in the motive, 'they' are no longer the 'people' that represent the voice of God.

¥h«D


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤U¤È 12:21:52

In a practical sense, the voice of people is often distorted by greed, selfishness, etc. The church (in this case, the HK Diocese or Bishop Zen), however, should be able to reflect the voice of God, although some people (e.g. the writer of this "open letter") are starting to get skeptical about that.

josemaria


Posted -
2003/7/4 ¤U¤È 03:55:26

That can lead to faithfuls losing 'faith' in the local Church, then the universal Church, if things are not 'put right'.

¤j¶À¶Ì¿ßGARFIELD


Posted -
2003/7/5 ¤W¤È 01:26:55

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Cecil


Posted -
2003/7/7 ¤W¤È 09:44:12

Will Bowtie receive 'orders' by the Bishop as you suggested?
Your logic is too difficult to follow, babe.

Cecil


Posted -
2003/7/7 ¤U¤È 04:11:25

On the other hand, the Bishop COULD well have influenced the government to carry out good administration, even in the wake of 'bad' laws.
The biggest flaw in your logic is that the Church and the faithful COULD have temporal power in politics and shape the government by the temporal system. I am not saying that they couldn't - like the Philippines when nearly ALL the population are catholics, Cardinal Sin really shaped the government, but fact is a fact, there is still a very very long way before the Catholic church could do so in this area of the world. Even if you are given ten votes in one person.
Face the reality - there are 12 billion people in the PRC awaiting evangelisation, but their livelihood depends on bread at the time being, and they would not get bread from guys like you.
Even Christians would NEED to face realities and be practical in their deeds.
Bowtie is a practical man - you think Lao Tung treat him well? Even if the Bishop did not 'order' him, he already got a name of being 'powerless Tsang' in the HKSARG.
So what's the point of 'ordering him', pray?
The game just isn't played in the manner imagined by you, even if the results sought to be achieved are the same.

sk2


Posted -
2004/10/7 ¤U¤È 03:32:33

"¤Ñ¥D±Ð®{¥i§_§ë²¼¿ïÁ|¦Û¤vªº¥D±Ð¡H"

According to 2003¦~6¤ë30¤é¡m©ú³ø¡n "¤@¦Wµh¤ß¦ý¤´²`·R±Ð·|ªº¤Ñ¥D±Ð¤Í" who want to ask why the Church demands democracy but is not one herself : ­»´ä¤Ñ¥D±Ð·|ªñ¤é¿n·¥¹ª§j¡u¥Á¥D¡v¡C´±°Ý§Ú­Ì¦ó´¿¦³¤@¥Á¥D²£¥Íªº±Ð·|¬[ºc¡H

There is one article on yesterdays Sing Pao :

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Augustine


Posted -
2004/10/7 ¤U¤È 07:16:32

Deeply agree with the analysis of sk2.

Since the destruction of scholastic Metaphysics and together with it the cosmological view of Reality from the 14th century by such tenets as Nominalism, Europe has entered into a period of philosophical decadance which gradually amplified the value of reality in the individual at the expense the Objectivity of the trans-subjective reality.

Philosophical investigation is no more based on an established hierarchy of Metaphysical or Theological Truths, unrevealed or unrevealed, self-evident or not self-evident, but based on individualistic appreciation of realities, either in the form of Empiricism, after Heraclitus, trying to explain knowledge by mere sensical data or (Cartesian) Intellectualism, after Platonism, trying to explain knowledge from the conscious Self, by immanent, innate "ideas".

But both are based on the Infinite Value of the Individual Self: whether it is the "esse est percipi" of Berkeley or the "Cogito ergo sum" of Descartes.

"It" is, because I sense it / I conceive of it.

(Each) Man determines (His own) Truth, he is to be the arbiter of truth.

Empricism and Intellectualism transformed to be the great Kantian Immantanism, which officially announced the a priori Rule by which men determine Truth. Finally, Truth is Subjective.
The seeds of truth is in each of us.

Men has finally declared war against the objective Truth, after Her innumerable attempts, often successful, to revolt against:
(1)the Catholic Church (Reformation),

(2)the Secular King (French Revolution) and then

(3)the Savior Jesus Christ while preserving the notion of God (Freemasonry), and finally against

(4)the mention of "God" whatsoever (Atheist Communism/Bolshevism).

Of course, to determine which truth (of yours or mine or his or hers) is the Truth, we need some means, either:
Absolutism OR Democracy, which of course the former was used by Hitler and he failed so we have the prospering of the latter


Few really knows that Democracy is essentially, though effective, a Compromise, the utilitarian way par excellence to verdict on matters of truths.

One could cite many examples how democracy pretends to reflect truths which are against Natural Law or the Common Good.

You could vote to legalize Abortion, Homosexual "unions", Pornography, Drugs(in Holland), then WHY couldn't we vote to have the Name of God eliminated from our Constitutions, schools, and then the whole Society?

edward


Posted -
2004/10/14 ¤U¤È 10:40:44

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