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edward
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Posted -
2002/6/4 下午 11:43:46
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一位具有高中教育程度的教友家中，該有哪些信仰的書藉呢？
最近對香港公共圖書館的天主教藏書作了一個鳥瞰，發覺天主教的書籍實在少得驚人。就以《天主教教理》一書為例，在全港的公共圖書館中，都袛得三兩本而已！
倘若我們教區內的每個堂區，能每年給該區的圖書館添置一兩本天主教書籍的話，那麼這個情況倒可以大大改善了。
但我們的教區每年出版多少書呢？我們有幾多本書可以捐出來呢？
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/6/5 上午 10:40:11
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你如查看光啟和真理學會的書目,你會發現不是真的"很少",當然是"少"了點.
應有甚麼書真的很難說,看你喜歡甚麼課題,和愛不愛書.
我家便專做了十二個書架來藏書,其中過半是神學及禮儀書籍.
但有些人卻只愛看,不愛藏. 看習慣吧.
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人言
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Posted -
2002/6/5 上午 10:55:21
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香港教區的出版事業低落是甚麼原因,很值得大家探討.是欠缺寫作和翻譯人材、時間、寫作習慣、閱讀風氣亦或．．．．．理由可能很多，試看我們基督教的兄弟，任何一間基督教的書屋都充滿林林總總的不同中文信仰書籍，只要你有心一定不會空手而回．是甚麼原因．是否他們的信仰培育比較我們的積極和普及．真值得反思．
另外教區每年都會定一傳播主日．（今年六月九日，慶祝第三十六屆世界傳播節。主題為『互聯網乃傳揚福音的新領域』。 ）我們的論盡神學網頁會否積極回應配合．
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edward
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Posted -
2002/6/5 下午 12:36:16
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天主教書籍的作者，往往都是神職人員。但香港的神職人員，都是出名的忙，所以大部分都被逼得彷效著主耶穌的芳表──述而不作。而平信徒寫作，又一直得不到鼓勵（指的是讚揚和實質的回報）。所以在香港這地方，天主教書籍，真少如鳳毛麟角了。
香港（甚或是全世界？）的天主教徒，普遍袛重視禮儀和靈修。而被視為活躍的教友，多是注重團體的參與、籌辦活動的積極，而及人事上搞關係。至於在信理和倫理層面上培育，則不受重視。大家不清楚自己信的是甚麼，只能跟隨大部分香港人一般，去過一個「香港教友的生活」。
教友們搞「福傳」，越來越傾向於叫人們來參加活動、參加活動、參加活動，而鮮有自己走過來，去跟人家去談信仰和解釋自己的教友生活（若真的有「教友生活」的話）。
在這情況中，香港的教友們既不需要與教外人交談，而在教會內服務亦不需要比較專門的信仰知識。這就好像一位住在荒島中的醫生，既不需要考試，亦不需要看病，亦不需要交流，試問在此氣候下，怎能叫人看書？
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edward
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Posted -
2002/6/5 下午 12:53:29
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靚仔兄之家可謂汗牛充棟了。
小弟之所以提此一問，乃是為著自己近來由宿舍搬回家裡住，直至七月開始上班另有新宿為止。有見於「二屋」搬成了「一屋」，書籍衣服雜物幾乎「逼爆」了家，所以就萌生出「捐書給公共圖書館」的念頭來。
對於一般教友在家中應有哪些書的看法，我會從「需要」二字著眼。
儘管輔祭的家裡可以沒有《信友彌撒經書》、歌詠員的家裡可以沒有《頌恩》、聖言宣讀員家中可以沒有《聖經》───所有書籍都在聖堂看而不在家裡擺著，我仍然覺得有點不可接受，覺得很不是味兒。
我會覺得，一位教友家裡的應有哪些教會書藉，與我們怎樣描繪「教友生活」很有關係。一位教友會遇到些甚麼問題，家中就應有該些書籍。當然，問題可以是自己問的，亦可以是人家賜問的。但為能夠有效率地回應，我們的家裡應要有怎樣的預備呢？
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人言
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Posted -
2002/6/5 下午 03:29:30
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轉載自同學會專頁:
恭喜我們第二屆的馮一沖師兄，他的第一本作品已經出版了，請各師兄弟姊妹多多推介。以下是馮師兄發給論盡神學的電郵：
新朋友, 老朋友:
我的第一本書終於誕生了。書名是《好想做天使》。出版社剛通知我，打從星期四 (5月30日) 開始，將在中華書局有售，售價港幣四十元。正如我在簡介中所說，書裡記錄零碎思想片段，用一個都市人的眼光看工作，朋友，家庭和信仰。
我當然希望你能與我分享此書。更希望你可以把它作為一份禮物，送給身邊的人。謝謝支持。
還有，大家知道我不是個名作家。所以書的存量不會很多。大概也不會安排放在當眼處，如果找不到，請向店員登記。十萬個謝謝。
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/6/5 下午 10:08:22
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張兄見笑了．我實在也有你的困擾，書多到不知放那裡．
我最愛是禮儀和神學，當然以此為出發吧．
禮儀如有DOL及Rites，應該很不錯．The church at prayer也很好．
神學當然要有教理，鄧辛疾，最好當然是有拉內的世界的聖事．
另外，最重要的是要有聖經，最好多幾個版本．
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edward
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Posted -
2002/6/6 上午 11:49:47
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我這個問題是針對一般教友的。其實想深一層，我是不是正問著：一個受過高中教育的教友，應對自己信仰有多少知識？信仰的「意識」，應在他生活中佔有如何的一個位置？
《聖經》當然要有，但教理書籍其實都相當重要。大家認為一般教友家中，應否有《主日感恩祭》這類書？
總覺得從前的教友有著不少好書，如《現代問題的解答》，是一套很詳盡的護教書籍，可惜時移世易，今此書應不復見了。先前大家提到過的《我的彌撒經書》，將全年的彌撒編成一部書本出售，是教友家中很好的禮儀默想題材，但梵二後該書就「兔死狗烹」了。
書本因時光流逝而絕版，其實可說是一種新陳代謝的健康作用。但少了一本書後，市場中卻未能出現另一本可以替代其價值的書，這就叫做「淘汰」了。
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Cecil
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Posted -
2002/9/7 上午 11:08:38
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靈修的書籍對一般信友很重要;基督徒的家中多數有不少這類書籍,可能是他們對團體活動的互動信仰比較著重,所以也較多靈修上進步的索求。
反觀天主教信友,比較上不會在意個人靈修,連信仰團體也多以事工為大前提。
這似乎是為何盧雲神父的著作多數為基督教吸取了的現象;他許多作品是工教團體服務的'指南針'.他那本'負傷的治療者'是神父修女及所有團體領導人必讀的,特別在今日這氣候。
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/9 下午 06:30:21
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施施,我同妳的睇法正好相反.
是公教徒有很強的靈修傳統,而新教徒正缺乏這一點,所以他們才來"發掘"我們的寶藏.
普遍新教徒所說的靈修是讀經和祈禱,而不是我們所說的spirituality.
盧雲和梅頓是當代的靈修大師,而實際上他們的譯作最先也是由我們自己人(公教真理學會)譯先,只是出版/翻譯政策的問題,後來的譯作都由新教的出版社去做.
事也可從兩面看,如非由新教的弟兄去翻譯,出版.我可以肯定他們也不會在新教的圈子裡有這麼大的影響力,那未嘗不是一件好事.
當然,他們因誤解而做成的翻譯上錯誤是少不了的(如major orders譯為大修會,但從上下文便應知道是大品,即五品或以上的聖職),但問題不算嚴重,我最不欣賞他們"不刻意"地tune down他們的天主教神父身份.
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Cecil
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Posted -
2002/9/10 上午 09:56:38
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我同意你的看法 - 新教的'小器'地方處處可見,而靈修的鼻祖本來就是天主教。
我指出的是'現象'上的(phenomenon),因為覺得要開放胸襟,要先能'觀察入微'著手。
我當然是系望NOUVEN的著作權全在天主教手中啦,比較上readable很多呀!
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 01:48:02
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Maybe the fact is that: the ancient and diverse traditions of catholic spirituality are being ignored by the major catholic public at least in HK.
Not that the Catholic Church
does not have a concrete and profound spiritual tradition.
"Religious" activism is so prevalent here that at least the impression of the catholic church being "lack" or "negligence" of introspective spiritualtiy is created.
No one doubts the necessity of the Church's role in advocating social justice. But without devout prayer and contemplation we can really achieve nothing on that.
Merton's early works(before his becoming a 'hermit' in the cenobitic Abbey of Gethsemani) are very meaningful.
But his later works could easily lead others astray since they submit a sense of nihilism---hollow Oriental(Buddhist) Metaphysical experience
which is incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
This is nothing as ecumenism but sheer quietism.
Also Merton in his last years became disobedient to his superiors frequently. This is the bad example contrary to the true Benedictine Spirituality.
In a word, comparing Merton to the great Benedictine/Cistercian Spirituality is not
only unfair but incorrect.
"新教的'小器'地方"---I think these are natural, since they disagree the presense of genuine Catholic Spirituality and think of the notion of holy priesthood so offensive, they, in admiring certain catholic spiritual figures they must counter their dislike of the catholic priesthood.
Nevertheless I think MANY MANY more Protestants are more serious and sincere in the Faith than the population in HK who go to Mass on Sundays as catholics. Although they read the Scriptures and make supplications(one element of prayer) only, their spiritual fruit is im-measurable, it really put us to shame when we have such a great fountain of catholic spirituality but appear as progressive "catholic" activist who pray and meditate SO LITTLE, and our priests are busier than us too!
Curiously our priests have the much simplified Divine Office and Mass after the Vatican Council, but they got busier...you can imagine how many hours they spend on chores like adminstrative and social works.
Is it really necessary to go to a monastery to seek true sublime catholic spirituality?
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 03:04:50
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It is quite intresting that those posts from Augustine had stated or implied that Rahner and Merton theology/spirituality is not compliable with the Catholic teaching.
How is that so? Did CDF has any doc support this?
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 04:34:16
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I haven't studied Rahner's theology yet. I think I'd better do that after I have acquired a foundation in the St.Thomas first. I couldn't understand the link between Merton and Rahner, despite thier common international fame.
Well Merton is not so much so a theologian, so there is not a single quoted statement that CDF could condemn from him. It's only his later years'appearance and activities that are susceptible.
By engagement in Zen meditation he submits to a recognition or at least an appreciation of
Nihilism or quietism as the Buddhist Zen tradition understands it.
This is not just praying with Buddhists (for peace etc) but a direct engagement in the religious practice of an athestic religion.
"See the fruits and you can see the man"
Now, the Buddhist notion of athestic Nihilism is clearly not Christian.
I don't think that is any sort of ecumenism. Of course I am not the CDF, I just share my opinions here formed after my being warned by several Norbertine fathers in California who are the censors at the diocese. At first I was shocked because PRECISELY I was attracted to the Cistercians by His SEVEN STOREY MOUNTAIN.
YOu can say my opinions of Merton is not based on any CDF document(I don't think there are any, I only know a similar case in India about an Indian Jesuit who tangled himself with Hinduism---I forgot the name but he is well known)
but by observation and discussion.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 06:13:33
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If you study more about the writing of the desert fathers, you would/could see the linkage, and the base of the "pactice" of the spirituality of Merton, and the "similarity" between Christian and Buddhistism monastic pactrice.
"Also Merton in his last years became disobedient to his superiors frequently. This is the bad example contrary to the true Benedictine Spirituality"
Could we judge that what is "true Benedictine Spirituality"? I think the OSB and OCSO may have difference understanding. And also, if Merton really have problem in his spirituality, would the Abbey still sponser the Merton Centre, and the study activities about Merton as well as in their website have special pages about Merton?
Are you talking about De Mello?
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 09:43:45
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Obedience to superiors is one of the three vows (Stability, conversion of life and obedience) that any monk must profess and obedience to superiors in the person of Christ is frequently exhorted in the Holy Rule.
What exactly is the "similarity" between Buddhism and Christian Western Monasticism beside the external features(such as the stress on meditation---with totally different meaning)? And are there any examples in the desert fathers who point to the athestic nihilist Buddhist monastic practices?
Let me tell you this: not all Benedictine AND Cistercian communities (which I had been tempted to believe before) agree and consent to the "spiritual excursions" of the late Merton.
Gethesmani is not the Vatican of the Trappists and in today's circunstances it will never be. What Gethesmani does today is not exactly what St. Bernard and St. Benedict had taught.
I know several old French Benedictine and Cistercian Houses of the Common Observance who presented clearly to me, when I enquire about vocational matters, that they will not let these practices defame(in their own reasining) their monastic tradition.
I am not condemning the late Merton for his inmost intention because we can't know.
(we will never know---maybe he is not just for self-exaltation, NB: he is already very famous that time. But also for the good of the already SELF-sufficient Cistercian Heritage).
I disagree (I tell again) that he LURES those weak in Faith to equalize our great Benedictine/Cistercian Spirituality with some athestic Buddhist ideas!
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/10 下午 10:42:21
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For many seeking mystical enlightenment, God is no longer the personal infinite God who is transcendent yet immanent who has acts into human history, reveled in the person of Christ and Holy Scripture, but often becomes a pantheistic and monistic everythingness and oneness that embraces everything. A God that is totally One with a fallen humanity and world would be both good and evil at the same time... this then leads to ethical relativism or a blurring of truth and error.
Mysticism from the East or from Western traditions relies on techniques such as repetitive prayers, repeating over and over a word or phrase (mantras, which maybe are names of deity), contemplations of icons or images real or imagined, also involved are methods of emptying the mind, extreme asceticism and in some cultures the use of hallucinogenic drugs. Through these and other methods the experiencer may see light, encounter entities, hear voices, feel a state of enlightenment or bliss, unity with God, etc."
Perhaps more than often the spirit encountered in the mystical state is not the Holy Spirit of Truth which brings people into the Presence of God but maybe "another spirit" which St. Paul warned the Corinthians about.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him (2Cor 11:3-4).
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." - Lucifer (Isaiah 14:14).
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2Thes 2:3-12).
http://www.dtl.org/cults/article/mystical.htm
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/11 上午 10:15:58
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我想從無一個修士"完全"服從他的長上,爭論是少不免的.因某修士某時空中曾"不服從"他的長上便為他"扣上"他的靈修有問題,不是真正的本篤精神,我想是有問題的.
革西馬尼當然不是本篤會的梵蒂岡,正如好彩Augustine不是教宗一樣.但革西馬尼作為梅頓的團體,如果他們真的如Augustine所說,不滿意梅頓的不服從,他們會這樣繼續梅頓的事工嗎?
是否只有認同Augustine所理解的本篤精神/靈修的修會團體才是"正統"?
形上學中的"一"和"多"的問題時常困擾哲學家,而"統一"與"多元"卻困擾著神學家.
是否因為實行一些禪修的方式便代表認同佛教的"空"?
這問題正像我們的"敬祖"儀式,是否向祖先上香便是多神崇拜?
你仍可以才到很多神父不同意"敬祖"儀式,但這是否就表示"敬祖"儀式有問題?
基督信仰是否有轉化的能力?
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steve
管理人員
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Posted -
2002/9/11 上午 11:32:16
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Bravo!!!
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/11 下午 01:58:22
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1)The late Merton not just happened to disobey his superiors one or two times. I am not refering to that kind of quarrel on one or two occasions. I mean his heartfelt dislike of authority---what is the point of, say, continually writing to the Abbot letters in French whom he knew is incapable of reading French? Is that a point of the Rule?
Interesting to note that a Buddhist Abbot has even greater authority than the Christian one.
Notice that here I have not drawn the problem of his spirituality from this habitual confrontation between Fr.Louis(the abbot of his hermitage) and Fr. Fredrick of Gethsemani yet. It is simply against the Rule.
2)The reason I disagree his spirituality (not doctrinally as CDF hasn't spoken yet and I am not qualified for that) is that it
(I say again) encourages the suspicion of promoting false ideas esp. to those weak in Faith.
St. Paul said Christians are free to do anything according to his conscience (viz. for Christians the guidance of the Holy Ghost), but to avoid stumbling fellow brothers weak in Faith I would rather sacrifice my freedom---Yes Merton is free to do all that IF he know what exactly he is doing and restrict his mind from consenting un-Christian errors(which exist in Buddhism).
However considering the vast fame of the late Merton. His deeds WILL give many the impression of his consent to Buddhist nihilism.
Why just an impression is so dangerous?
Ans: Not all Catholics are theologians(neither do I). And more frightening, his example will be delibrately used by liberals who are inclined to religious indifferentism.
Note that I have not said anything on Merton's conscience, maybe he is conscious and wish to provide some extra nutrients to the Cistercian Spirituality with some special effects---a gesture of friendliness to Buddhist, a stress on emptied minds, and stress on worldly peace esp. in the late 60s). But, he is giving these nutrients to a healthy man and risking something more important.
In a word, Merton may not be un-orthodox(this is up to the Holy Office) but is surely imprudent because he seeks his own fancy at the cost of leading others astray. THe "problem" with his spirituality lies NOT in the external gestures...etc but at the dangerous implications that might stem from it.
3)Gethsemani of course will not find any errors in Merton's Spirituality, since the CDF has not spoken a word. What they did is to fail to see the possible dangers of this sort of mysticism. Esp. in the modern times when ideas like this are so diversely recognized in different parts of the world. In diocese A OK but in diocese B may not. Will you say a French Abbot intolerant when he disallow his monks using Merton's model?
4)Augustine所理解的本篤精神/靈修的修會團體才是"正統"?
Qn:"正統"--->doctrinal or truly Benedictine?
I am not doubting the doctrinal orthodoxy of Merton.
I was just making a moral opinion. But as far as I know, contempt of authority is explicitly discouraged in the Rule. So in the second sense of the word, Merton is not truly Benedictine in his deeds, he may still love Abbot Dunne in his heart.
5)"基督信仰是否有轉化的能力?"---I don't understand, convert from what to what?
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Cecil
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Posted -
2002/9/12 上午 09:56:59
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I am no expert in Merton, but the reference to Budhhist 'nihilism' is worth mentioning - 佛家的'空'並非'畢竟空','nihilism'未必是合適的繙繹,亦未必是'空'的正確理解.至於麥純對'空'的體會為何,我還未由機會研究。
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/12 下午 12:48:41
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我想我開始明白Augustine的意思.
他只是"擔心"麥純的靈修方式會使"軟弱"的弟兄跌倒.
正如有些反對"敬祖"的人仍"擔心"敬祖會使人有一錯誤的impression一樣,會讓人以為我們拜邪神一樣,所以我們不如唔好做啦.
我"同情"這樣的人,但我不同意他們的看法.
基督信仰的轉化能力使我們可以抽取不同文化/宗教"善的"因素,而轉化成基督徒的生活/信仰的一部份,而不是放棄,排拒.
如我們不是將羅馬人的太陽崇拜轉變為基督的降生聖誕,我們又何來聖誕節?
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Augustine
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Posted -
2002/9/13 上午 11:31:00
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Thanks for clarifying.
But Pope ST.Leo the Great warned us not to make any comparison between the pagan Roman Festival of the Sun and the Christian Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't think any medieval doctors nor Fathers would compare Christmas with Solis-mas.
As far as I understand, the Church at that time adopted the date of Dec 25th is a pragmatic consideration due to the vast majority of the newly baptised Christians who were formerly Roman pagans AND were not educated enongh. This is out of the Church's sympathy TO human weakness.
Note that at that time the issue is so urgent that
our modern theory of "inculturation" had NOT been formed.
That was necessary at the time because the Church mingled with Roman politics so much with all those Roman "dignities" influencing in the Church-Empire.
Similar purely tactical measures have happened in Mexico(a good work by the Jesuits there).
But today is different. We ALREADY have a rich, diverse and self-sufficient tradition of Catholic Christian Spirituality.
It is imprudent to pursue something unnecessary while risking the danger whcih I have mentioned.
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靚仔
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Posted -
2002/9/13 下午 04:49:05
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The so-called "self-sufficient tradition" is some how just "romanize", not really "Catholic." How the Church in Hong Kong act as a particalar church, developing her own tradition to help/let the people of Hong Kong to understand the Church in our own culture is our task.
Tradition is not something static and 封閉.
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軍艦鳥
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Posted -
2002/9/14 上午 09:30:18
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Reading with interest the term “rich, diverse and self-sufficient tradition Catholic Christian Spirituality”, I cannot agree more with Handsome that “Tradition” is not static and enclosed. It is enriched by different cultures. The Church Fathers had once used the mineral contained in a running river to illustrate that Christian faith is enriched inadvertently as it takes root in different cultures. Although in the early centuries there was no such term “inculturation” when pagan of Roman citizen was converted to Christianity, the Church decision at the time to mark the Apollo date as Christ’s birth date was a sign of inculturation. (Perhaps the word is there in some old document and no one, up to this moment, has discovered it from the old transcript). Whether we like it or not nowadays, this is a fact.
NO one can conclude that we do not need inculturation nowadays. Indeed this is an on-going process throughout the salvation history. And through inculturation we can further rich, and enhance the self-sufficient tradition Catholic Christian Spirituality so that we can use language understandable to the present world to evangelize the non-believers.
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