|
作者
|
內容
|
|
Augustine
|
Posted -
2003/8/1 上午 11:41:46
|
|
|
"If most of the apostles--by their examples-- did not regard celibacy as essential to follow Jesus,
>celibacy not essential to follow Christ? True. St. Paul already made this clear. But are priests just any follower of Christ? No. Their ministry binds them to make sacrifice for a total consecration to the service of God's people. The apostles were already married before their 3 years with Christ, by the indissolubility of marriage they must remain martial state even after Pentecost. I really don't see what the point is here citing the examples of the apostles.
"how could any of their successors claim that celibacy is a better way to follow the Lord?"
>It depends on what is your notion of 'better'. Those called to matrimony follow Christ better in matrimony. And those called to celibate priesthood follow(and serve God's House the Church) Christ better in celibate priesthood. Actually, consecrated virginity following God's calling as taught by most Fathers is more praiseworthy. But one needs the special graces and vocation of God to live this life, ie. celibate priesthood.
To be a faithful Christian is one matter. To live out Christian Perfection by the Evangelical Counsels is another.
The question we are discussing is: Whether chastity-a part of the Evangelical Counsels, should also be imposed on priests as it is to the monks by their vows?
"doing justice or charitable work" of course is possible for any faithful. But what we are discussing here seems to be something else, namely, whether the Latin discipline of celibate priesthood is reasonable.
It is important to understand that when we praise the fruits of priestly celibacy we are not despising the fruits of sacred matrimony.
|
|
Augustine
|
Posted -
2003/8/1 下午 12:07:29
|
|
|
"Christians were in a hostile world and also he thought the second coming would be soon."
What St. Paul said yesterday is also true today, if we think conscienciously.
|
|
Augustine
|
Posted -
2003/8/1 下午 12:12:39
|
|
|
医生的抢救病人为人解除病痛也很高尚，他们是不是也应该独身？
There are examples of medical officers voluntarily forsaking marriage to fulfill very tough missions such as health care in underdeveloped countries. Even ordinary doctors have very few chances to stay with their family nowadays.
|
|
Cecil
|
Posted -
2003/8/1 下午 03:02:21
|
|
|
truthfollower-你的第二段貼文我讀不到,全是亂碼.
又,sex between spouses,which is the highest form of body/soul union between two persons--
哪處聖經或聖傳這樣說的呢?常常見人在這兒這樣說的,但又沒提出處,我懂的信理又沒有這樣的介紹,請賜教.
|
|
truthfollower
|
Posted -
2003/8/3 上午 08:54:55
|
|
|
|
|
truthfollower
|
Posted -
2003/8/3 上午 08:57:34
|
|
|
Dear Cecil, I am sorry my second 貼文became 亂碼. I don’t know how to deal with it either.
Before giving you my opinion on the question you raised, I would first express my appreciation to your kind & humble attitude. :) I had read your previous 貼文s and noticed that you always appear so amiable. It is really a pleasure to interact with you. Actually it is not important who is right or wrong, after all we are followers of the Lord and brothers & sisters. Well, enough “flattery.”
Union (or sex) between spouses should be the highest form of body/soul, I am not sure the Bible has the exact wordings like this. Maybe the closest is from Genesis 2, 22--24: “The Lord God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man. When he brought her to the man, the man said: ‘this one, at last, is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; …’ That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.”
I wonder what is more intimate than “bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh,” or what a higher form could be if not “the two of them become one body”? Of course we all know this is just an ideal. In reality, many married couples may not achieve such an idealistic union – union of body and soul – but at least some loving couples could achieve this goal to certain degree. This is also the reason why Christian couples should set good examples for the world and for their own well-being.
I think the Bible does not contain all things we need to know. Also the biblical language is often figurative and many of them cannot be dealt with literally. But I believe the Bible does give us the wisdom for life and the light for salvation.
If any friend knows better on this issue, please kindly give us your valuable advice.
|
|
truthfollower
|
Posted -
2003/8/3 上午 09:23:31
|
|
|
Brother Augustine asked: "are priests just any followers of Christ?" Then you answered: "No. Their ministry binds them to make sacrifice for a total consecration to the service of God's people."
Your argument is really very puzzling to me. I wonder if priests are not just any followers of Christ, then you think the married apostles are? pardon me?
"The apostles were already married before their 3 years with Christ, by the indissolubility of marriage they must remain martial state even after Pentecost. I really don't see what the point is here citing the examples of the apostles."
The reason I cite the examples of the apostles is to demonstrate that MARRIED people can do (and have done) a wonderful ministry in spreading the good news and in serving the people of God!!! It is just illogical to induce “the indissolubility of marriage” from the example of the married apostles. I cite the examples of the apostles because it proves that celibacy is NOT necessary for the priestly ministry!
“To be a faithful Christian is one matter. To live out Christian Perfection by the Evangelical Counsels is another.”
well, well, are you saying that most of the apostles were just “faithful Christians?”are they not livng out "Christian Perfection?" Excuse me! You got to be kidding!
|
|
Cecil
|
Posted -
2003/8/4 下午 05:58:17
|
|
|
The discussion led me to a thought : if Jesus Christ chose apostles with wives and apostles that are celibate, He must know that both types of men could carry out His ministry to the full sense. He is God and He would not be limited by circumstances to choose the second best, let alone compromising gold by silver.
In that sense, it is difficult indeed to figure out why Christ chose married men in the important ministry of setting up of His Church on earth. If Peter was married, then the significance is all the more greater, since Peter is the 'rock on which Christ built His Church'.
|
|
bunye
|
Posted -
2007/2/9 下午 01:12:09
|
|
|
「主內的愛與樂」
「愛」與「樂」在主內，
正是人生的美滿。
我正是本着這樣的一個心。
2007/02/09這一個日子值得記念。
男的、女的、未婚的、已婚的都一樣蒙福。
耶和華是一位賜福的神。
耶穌把一切都說明了。
你們還未明白，怎麽了？
|
|
bunye
|
Posted -
2007/2/9 下午 01:30:12
|
|
|
論盡神學管理員：
這貼文因違反本討論區貼文守則第一項而被刪除，如有任何疑問，請電郵至admin@theology.org.hk與我們聯絡。
|
|
bunye
|
Posted -
2007/2/9 下午 01:38:46
|
|
|
論盡神學管理員：
這貼文因違反本討論區貼文守則第一項而被刪除，如有任何疑問，請電郵至admin@theology.org.hk與我們聯絡。
|
